Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-04-2006, 02:02 PM   #26
ikkitosennomusha
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 241
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

I can't say aikido has built me up because I came into aikido as a bodybuilder. It has however, maintained my masculinity. I had huge forearms already. At the time I began aikido, my biceps were 21" and I don't recall the exact measurement of my forearms but yeah, they were huge.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 03:43 PM   #27
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Dirk Hanss wrote:
Kotegaeshi and shihonage are much more difficult. I have to hold his wrist very firm to not loos it and in shihonage I nearly have to dislocate his shoulder - his arms are not flexible at all.

They are all beginner's faults, but on "normal" uke, I do not have these problems - maybe others

Dirk
Not beginners faults, you just need more practice.You shouldn`t have to nearly dislocate his shoulder, regardless of how long he/ you have been practicing, nor is his lack of flexibility part of the problem .

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 04:40 PM   #28
Dirk Hanss
 
Dirk Hanss's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Germany
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
Not beginners faults, you just need more practice.
Sorry Bryan, ... but what is the difference?
More practice helps me improving my technique - and gets uke's arm more flexible.

Oh yes, and as his body learns about the pain, he will move (dance) better before it occurs, yes?

Dirk
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 07:15 AM   #29
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Hi Dirk,

I may be wrong, but your post indicated it was the fault of your uke for being a beginner.

Quote:
Dirk wrote:
They are all beginner's faults, but on "normal" uke, I do not have these problems - maybe others
I`m just suggesting that in my experience it`s not the uke at fault .

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 08:00 AM   #30
Dirk Hanss
 
Dirk Hanss's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Germany
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
Hi Dirk,

I may be wrong, but your post indicated it was the fault of your uke for being a beginner.
You are wrong, I was talking about my fault.

If I did better aikido, I would never have to rely on my grip, so thick, strong or inflexible arms would not matter.

Is that clear now?

You see, I do not only have to improve my aikido techniques, but also my daily life communications. And that is "aikido in everyday life". If you master one, you just have to adopt it to the other one.


Dirk
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 11:53 AM   #31
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
Not beginners faults, you just need more practice.You shouldn`t have to nearly dislocate his shoulder, regardless of how long he/ you have been practicing, nor is his lack of flexibility part of the problem .

rgds

Bryan
Sorry Brian, but you are big idealist.

Lack of flexibility and very strong arms/forearms have key influence on the way that nage execute a technique.
If attacker with such properties decide to block your movement, and believe me it is always possible in aikido framework, nage have to do very strong lock on uke arm in order to put him off balance. Such lock of course can easy dislocate joints if attacker still fights back.
That happens, cos nage is working on the limit of physical capacities of human body. Lock usually is done by nage, by using whole body that attacks for example elbow joint. It is impossible to control well a power of lock, when nage is doing full power irimi. As in this situation nage has no window to ajust his technique, it is uke responsibility to take care about his own safety. That is a reason, why ppl with thick forearms must develop extreme flexibility, otherwise no save practice is possible with them.

best

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 12:07 PM   #32
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Hi Mr. S,

I know what you mean, especially if done in realtime. Some waza are best done with sharp movements, and when done that way, there isn't time for a really safe reaction. you almost have to be taking a fall intentionally to survive some of those throws. People talk about how the shite should always protect uke, and yet give full power in some situations...personally, I don't see it so much.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 12:39 PM   #33
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

I should add that the above is one reason I like slow training...you can take the slack out of the relationship, do the full movement, use reasonable power, and still keep uke safe. Too fast, and with the connective tissues already at their limit, injuries are almost inevitable.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 06:21 PM   #34
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

connective tissues, well put, Ron! looks like you preserved yours. Lucky you!

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 06:41 PM   #35
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,910
Spain
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Brad Medling wrote:
I can't say aikido has built me up because I came into aikido as a bodybuilder. It has however, maintained my masculinity.
I've never thought in Aikido as a way to maintain "masculinity", but...

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 06:32 AM   #36
ruthmc
Dojo: Wokingham Aikido
Location: Reading, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 393
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

OK, so how do I grow my hands bigger so they can grab and hold all these big thick hairy wrists in katatedori?

With some folk it's like a shark trying to chew a large solid beach ball - I just bounce off 'em.

Perhaps katatedori isn't an appropriate attack for these types of forearms?

Ruth
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 07:11 AM   #37
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Sorry Brian, but you are big idealist.
Hi Szczepan,

Nothing wrong with that, gotta have something to aim and work for

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
If attacker with such properties decide to block your movement, and believe me it is always possible in aikido framework, nage have to do very strong lock on uke arm in order to put him off balance. Such lock of course can easy dislocate joints if attacker still fights back.
I agree that some uke`s can shut you down if you give them the chance, but I disagree that consequently it requires a very strong lock to break the balance from there. Still maybe idealist, but again, something to work towards

rgds
Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 08:14 AM   #38
Dirk Hanss
 
Dirk Hanss's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Germany
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Ruth McWilliam wrote:
OK, so how do I grow my hands bigger so they can grab and hold all these big thick hairy wrists in katatedori?

With some folk it's like a shark trying to chew a large solid beach ball - I just bounce off 'em.

Perhaps katatedori isn't an appropriate attack for these types of forearms?

Ruth
Hi Ruth,
I don't think you would like to run around with such hands

Take the opportunity to learn not to grap. Feel uke's power follow it and redirect it. Well, I do not claim, I can do this, but sometimes it seems to work (a bit).

What do you want to hear about an appropriate attack? Aikidoka learn so much counters, so the best attack is no attack.. That is why I practise aikido. I want to prove any opponent, that there there is no appropriate attack. Then we can sit down, have a beer and talk about the issue.

Dirk
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 01:53 PM   #39
ikkitosennomusha
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 241
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
I've never thought in Aikido as a way to maintain "masculinity", but...
Every male has a variant degree of masculinty. Mine happens to be beyond the norm. Aikido helped me to maintain those enhanced characteristics that comprise my "muscularity" or "masculinity". I assumed most people would know what I was talking about but I guess not. Furthermore, I never said I use it for "a way" to maintain, it just so happens that training aikido has indirectly assisted me in maintenence through cardio and throwing people.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 02:26 PM   #40
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

My teachers, faced with a range of differently-sized students, say that if you can't get around the wrist go for the hand, or the fingers....You can do some mean throws if you just get one finger....

I do practice with one big guy against whom I can't make any of our standing pins work. He has more leverage in his wrists than I do in my whole arm, and if I provoke him into really exerting himself, he can throw me from most of my "standing pins." Kneeling pins work, if I'm very precise.

Mary Kaye
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 03:56 PM   #41
ikkitosennomusha
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 241
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Mary Kuhner wrote:
My teachers, faced with a range of differently-sized students, say that if you can't get around the wrist go for the hand, or the fingers....You can do some mean throws if you just get one finger....

I do practice with one big guy against whom I can't make any of our standing pins work. He has more leverage in his wrists than I do in my whole arm, and if I provoke him into really exerting himself, he can throw me from most of my "standing pins." Kneeling pins work, if I'm very precise.

Mary Kaye
Keep practicing Mary, you can do this! You may have to have a different approach but you can do it. Adress this issue to your sensei for some insight and if that fails, go to some good seminars and address it there. Through training and kowledge, you will find a way to subdue any apponenet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 04:52 PM   #42
James Davis
 
James Davis's Avatar
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
United_States
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Mary Kuhner wrote:
My teachers, faced with a range of differently-sized students, say that if you can't get around the wrist go for the hand, or the fingers....You can do some mean throws if you just get one finger....

I do practice with one big guy against whom I can't make any of our standing pins work. He has more leverage in his wrists than I do in my whole arm, and if I provoke him into really exerting himself, he can throw me from most of my "standing pins." Kneeling pins work, if I'm very precise.

Mary Kaye
Fingers! Yes, but at least two at a time, please!

Have you tried breaking him down with another technique that he doesn't expect? Surprise is a valuable tool for an aikidoka, right?

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 09:28 AM   #43
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Location: Toronto, Canada
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 404
Canada
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Hi

Sorry for changing the tide of the discussion, but after someone said "it's supposed to be easier to do yonkyo on people with thin forearms" I wanted to ask about a certain issue:

I have rather thin forearms/wrists, weigh about 125lbs, yet yonkyo...uh...doesn't have much of an effect on me. Is this normal?

Thanks

(p.s I am also 16, if it makes much of a difference)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 09:55 AM   #44
Richard Langridge
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 62
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Roman, you are one lucky dude. Forearm thickness doesn't seem to have much to do with it, it's just one of those things. I personally seem to be very susceptible to yonkyo
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 10:46 AM   #45
Karen Wolek
Dojo: Kingston Aikido
Location: New York
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 322
United_States
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

I have skinny little forearms and wrists....and no Yonkyo "spot" to be found. So people should never rely on the pain, because some of us just don't feel it.

Karen
"Try not. Do...or do not. There is no try." - Master Yoda
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 12:42 PM   #46
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

I am pretty small myself and after ten years of practice, only two people, my teacher and his teacher, have ever been able to make me tap on a yonkyo. Its just the way my forearms are, and I'm not the only one in my dojo. I know of at least five of us, all under 5'5", are more or less immune to yonkyo. So the yonkyo has to be structurally correct to pressure the shoulder as well as the inside of the forearm; you can't rely on pain compliance. As my shihan once said: "Ah, he feels no pain? Okay, we break the arm."
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 02:19 PM   #47
James Kelly
Dojo: Glendale Aikikai
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 109
United Nations
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
As my shihan once said: "Ah, he feels no pain? Okay, we break the arm."
As my shihan once said: "Ah, he feels no pain? Okay, we pull his arm hair out. Then he feels pain."
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 02:29 PM   #48
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Anyone as uke go to grab mune mochi/dori, and wonder why your shite/nage is screaming and tapping wildly, only to find out you've got a handfull of chest hair in your fist under their dogi?


Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 04:31 PM   #49
Pauliina Lievonen
 
Pauliina Lievonen's Avatar
Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 559
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

Nope, but once I threw a guy in koshinage only to have him grab one of my nipples...

I never had the heart to tell the guy though.

kvaak
Pauliina
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2006, 07:04 AM   #50
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Thick forearms

OOOOOoooo. OUCH. Oh my god. I was at a dojo once where my female partner insisted I had to grab the dogi when thrown with koshi. I don't mind doing it with guys, but I avoid it with female partners for just that reason....

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thick or Thin: a Question of Dogi Josh Bisker Supplies 15 06-22-2004 10:32 PM
Practice with hurting others.. Bruce Baker General 38 04-20-2002 08:12 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:12 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate