Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-10-2003, 03:41 PM   #1
ewodaj
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 58
Offline
is it wrong to learn aikido mainly just for self-defense

purposes? I know there is a lot more to aikido than just learn how to defend yourself, but I just want to know what you peoople think of people who just want to learn aikido for defending themselves...im very impressed by aikido ever since I seen steven seagal doing it in his movies...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 03:59 PM   #2
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
A rain of fruity replies in 3... 2... 1...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 04:02 PM   #3
Goye
 
Goye's Avatar
Dojo: Satori Dojo
Location: Bogotá - Colombia
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 109
Colombia
Offline
I don't think it is wrong,... I always say that what is really important is to find the reason of being on the dojo,... If your motivation is self defense,... that is valid,,.. if it is spirituality,.. that is also very good,.. Aikido has many faces and every body has to be aware of which is that one that fits into his/her motivation.

César Martínez
Satori Dojo
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 04:19 PM   #4
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
Talking

well, look around and you'll find a top ten list of wrong reasons to do aikido


Alfonso Adriasola
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 04:41 PM   #5
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
I seriously doubt that there are many (any?) people who have clearly looked at what real self defense entails and then started an Aikido practice (or probably any other martial art) that continues for any length of time with the main motivation in continuing being self defense.

Charles Hill
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 04:56 PM   #6
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,038
United_States
Offline
Re: is it wrong to learn aikido mainly just for self-defense

There is nothing wrong in wanting to learn aikido to defend yourself. It just may be hard

to sustain your commitment to the frequency of training over a length of time required to gain some modest proficiency if your only interest in aikido is defending yourself. It's a fairly common theme among many long time martial arts practitioners that they began because of an interest in being better able to defend themselves. It's also true that they found other things about the art(s) they practice that appealed to them and compelled them to stay at it over a long time.

I am in my second decade of aikido now and it's a complex relationship. My thinking on just what self-defense is has morphed quite a bit over time and as I continue to train from week to week, sometimes the self-defense facet is large, important and sometimes I could care less because there are so many other things about my practice that I find interesting and want to explore.

Craig
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 05:47 PM   #7
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
The key word is continue - budo sort of grows on you doesn't it (still chuckling about the fungal take downs).

Louis - you do Aikido for your reasons and self defence as primary reason is as valid as any other. Over time your motives may change (or not) but that doesn't mean your present motives are wrong.
Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
I seriously doubt that there are many (any?) people who have clearly looked at what real self defense entails and then started an Aikido practice (or probably any other martial art) that continues for any length of time with the main motivation in continuing being self defense.

Charles Hill

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 07:53 PM   #8
DaveForis
Dojo: UW-L Aikido Club
Location: La Crosse, WI
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 38
Offline
Self-defense is always an acceptible motivation. Bout you have to be absolutely certain that Aikido is the right method to reach that goal. Steven Segal is 1) a high-ranking black belt and 2) an actor. Personally, I wouldn't take Aikido for self-defense (good thing that wasn't my original motivation too!) You'll become proficient in using Aikido for self-defense purposes in... about 10 years. Aikido is a high-level art, both technically and morally, and it completely overlooks the nasty, brutal, and often necessary basics of hitting back at whoever is attacking you. (The Aikido "I don't want to hurt my partner" mindset that you often find does not work so hot for building self-defense skills. At ALL.) I suggest taking something else too, a soft style like Kung Fu or what have you (hard styles and Aikido don't mix well), so that you can be able to handle yourself within a relatively short (compared to Aikido) period of time. When you have those basics of attack and defense down, and you have confidence (couKIghs) and focus because you know you can handle yourself, then Aikido may just work out great for you and help to further any ability you develop as a martial artist.

Behind every flaw in technique is a flaw in the mind or spirit
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 08:02 PM   #9
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Dave - there are Aikido dojos that can prepare you for most self defence situations in a very short time. I think that if you choose a dojo that takes 10 years to get you to a reasonable level of competency in Aikido for self defence or any purpose you have chosen badly.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 08:59 PM   #10
ewodaj
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 58
Offline
Thumbs down

Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Dave - there are Aikido dojos that can prepare you for most self defence situations in a very short time. I think that if you choose a dojo that takes 10 years to get you to a reasonable level of competency in Aikido for self defence or any purpose you have chosen badly.
I agree 100%
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 09:01 PM   #11
Veers
 
Veers's Avatar
Dojo: Shinkikan Aikikai Aikido of Corpus Christi
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 169
Offline
Quote:
You'll become proficient in using Aikido for self-defense purposes in... about 10 years.
*tenkans* Oops, your punch missed. Excuse me while I dodge some more.

(No, I'm not so green as to believe that dodges will get you through everything...just making a point.)

Anyway...

Louis, I believe what's been said should suffice...but let me add that while that was probably the biggest motivation of mine, it wasn't the only one. Others included learning (anything...learning=good), satisfying a curosity I had had for several years, athletic activity, and learning.

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 09:12 PM   #12
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
I liked a story Gaku Homma sensei tells about kids. A young student wasn't doing well in his academic studies and the parents talked to Homma sensei. He, in turn, talked to the student, and found that there was an extreme lack of interest on the student's part.

He told the student to just pretend to pay attention, even if he really wasn't -- just fake it.

You see where this goes, the student's grades went up dramatically because though he started faking, he eventually did pay attention.

I think this is how fungal budo can be. (I love that word, incorporating into my lexicon now...)

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 09:19 PM   #13
Veers
 
Veers's Avatar
Dojo: Shinkikan Aikikai Aikido of Corpus Christi
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 169
Offline
Reminds me of what C. S. Lewis said, Philip...if there's someone you can't stand, just pretend you like them when you're around them, and you'll find yourself liking them more, or at least not-liking them less.

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 10:39 PM   #14
Kyri Honigh
Dojo: Aikido Curacao
Location: Curacao
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 50
Offline
Hmmm I think that you have a fair reason. I too believe that it should be about being able to defend yourself first and then other goals.I know I know..aikido is about self-improvement. But how can you improve yourself without having the confidence of not being a push over. I want to be a "warrior". Someone who leads a life of dignity and who dares to fight for his ideals. But most importantly: enroll now in aikido training ( choose a good dojo)!! Succes
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2003, 11:42 PM   #15
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
I'll second Kyri's opinion. I take aikido because I like to apply it to helping others, making my work life easier to manage.

When I was a counselor as a kid in highschool, we had a major rule, among others: Don't let someone else's problems become your own. Later, my sensei said something similar: Don't play uke's game.

Those lines said, if I don't have "Phil", I can't do all the neat stuff in class. So, if you can't protect yourself first, how can you protect others, help others, and so on.

I know we're treading a bit off-topic, but I think it's worth noting that you can (and need) to be able to protect yourself, and at the same time, learn/enhance the values you're looking to change (if any). It's worth noting because we can easily miss the most basic benefit of aikido, the physical, self-defense level.

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 09:38 AM   #16
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
Aikido offers alot, Self defense is one of those. If thats all you are interested in, you can take a much shorter route getting to where you want to go.

If fighting is all thats important, than that is a sign of a person who has not evolved much.

People who train in Aikido get the big picture. It's a lifestyle, not a boxing ring.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 10:21 AM   #17
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
Offline
Quote:
Aleksey S (shihonage) wrote:
A rain of fruity replies in 3... 2... 1...
*throws fruit at Aleksey*

;-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 10:48 AM   #18
ewodaj
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 58
Offline
Quote:
Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
Aikido offers alot, Self defense is one of those. If thats all you are interested in, you can take a much shorter route getting to where you want to go.

If fighting is all thats important, than that is a sign of a person who has not evolved much.

People who train in Aikido get the big picture. It's a lifestyle, not a boxing ring.
If fighting is all thats important, than that is a sign of a person who has not evolved much.

thats not a fair statement chad...a fair amount of people take up martial arts for self-defense reasons and theres no denying that...you can go on about aikido being a spiritual martial art and so on, but the fact remains that it can be used as a self-defense method and a very good one at that...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 11:33 AM   #19
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
I agree Louis, All I'm saying is that if you would speak to an instructor or master. They would tell you that they are involved in any martial art for more than the reason of self defense. Confidence, esteem, interest, spirituality, what ever. I think that the self defense issue is a common one in the begining.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 11:39 AM   #20
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Quote:
All I'm saying is that if you would speak to an instructor or master. They would tell you that they are involved in any martial art for more than the reason of self defense.
It depends on the instructor and the martial art. Some remain focused on self-defense through out their entire lives. IMO, that's a good thing, as these instructors are generally at the forefront in instructing law enforcement, military, rape prevention classes and other similar applications that to my way of thinking are beneficial.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 11:49 AM   #21
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Louis,

Think about the question you asked. With all do respect, the question is a little silly. Yes it can be used for defense and yes it can be used for spiritual growth. It seems a lot of people ask questions they may already know the answers to. Sorry if I seem a little irrate, but the BB are starting to get a lot of questions like this.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 01:16 PM   #22
ewodaj
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 58
Offline
Quote:
Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
I agree Louis, All I'm saying is that if you would speak to an instructor or master. They would tell you that they are involved in any martial art for more than the reason of self defense. Confidence, esteem, interest, spirituality, what ever. I think that the self defense issue is a common one in the begining.
I think with some people chad they first take up a martial art for self-defense reasons, but as they get into it they realize that it can be a spiritual thing for them as well...I dont discriminate against anyone that is taking martial arts for whatever reason(s) they choose...I agree with you when you said self-defense is a common thing in the beginning, but as I said above, the more you get into it, the more you value the other aspects of martial arts like you said spirituality, self-esteem, motivation, etc...you speak the truth tho chad...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 01:19 PM   #23
ewodaj
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 58
Offline
Quote:
Eric Joyce wrote:
Louis,

Think about the question you asked. With all do respect, the question is a little silly. Yes it can be used for defense and yes it can be used for spiritual growth. It seems a lot of people ask questions they may already know the answers to. Sorry if I seem a little irrate, but the BB are starting to get a lot of questions like this.
well, I already do know the answer to this question eric, but im curious to see what you all think...you may think im egotistical or something of that nature for asking a question like this...seems taking up a martial art mainly for self-defense reasons is a kick in the face to some martial artists for some reason or another...probably because they treat martial arts and all of its aspects with the same respect they take the fighting/training...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 03:46 PM   #24
jvadakin
Dojo: Aikikai Foundation of Delaware
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 13
Offline
Louis, what various options (i.e. martial arts) are you considering? I hope you will post to tell us all what you finally decide to do.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2003, 04:19 PM   #25
Dave Miller
 
Dave Miller's Avatar
Dojo: UCO Budo Society
Location: Oklahoma
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 204
Offline
Quote:
Jonathan Lyons (Veers) wrote:
Reminds me of what C. S. Lewis said, Philip...if there's someone you can't stand, just pretend you like them when you're around them, and you'll find yourself liking them more, or at least not-liking them less.
So would that be "Aiki-peas"? LOL

DAVE

If you're working too hard, you're doing it wrong.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido does not work at all in a fight. joeysola General 2191 03-18-2019 06:26 AM
Why do some people hate Aikido? Guilty Spark General 611 01-16-2017 09:13 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 10:10 AM
failed? Leon Aman General 15 09-28-2006 05:15 AM
Two things. Veers General 8 04-04-2003 01:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:26 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate