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Old 06-27-2003, 12:00 PM   #101
Location: All over CA
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 137
Re: can't get there from here

Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
No. It just doesn't make sense. I think the phrase is "a zest for life." Corrupted zest may become lust.
I'm going to reply, but we should continue this on another thread. I'll start one in the 'open discussions'area.

In doing a search on 'lust for life' in google, I found 871,000 references. Dictionary.com actually uses 'lust for life' in it's definition (2b) of lust. Though zest and lust are synonamous, there are only 144,000 references on Google; and the on-line dictionary references I know of do not use zest for life as material to define the word zest.

Though you find that the term 'lust for life' does not make sense, it is more established to the rest of the (english speaking) world as the dominant aphorism, rather than 'zest for life'.

As zest and lust are referred to as synonyms in the thesaurus, it might be important to look at other synonyms. Under lust you may find hope, zeal, zest, energy, enterprise, spirit, avidity and other words which have less sexual connotations.
The wise know the difference. The ignorant don't.
Ah yes, it must be grand to be wise. I have never known a person to have truly arrived at the final and highest state of sagacity, it must be truly wonderful.

And yes, your last statement is very telling. Great wisdom coming from great acuminate head.

"To educate a man in mind, and not in morals, is to educate a menace to society." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 07-07-2003, 09:12 AM   #102
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
In the application of Libido .... where are your lines for morality drawn?

How much does your body's urges control you, and how much do you want to control those urges or satisfy them?

It sure don't happen before you hit your 30s, at least in my experience. The constant urge to reproduce and carry on the species is so strong that emotions usually win out over logic or clear thought, but urges and emotions don't have to win.

What is it gonna take?

It is gonna take time and experience to get control of that libido. Just like trainig a wild animal, those emotions and urges will never truly be tamed or under control, but they will follow the dictates of your morality because it is easier to follow these moral paths than to resist.

I don't know when it will happen for you, I am just turning 50 and I am just getting a whole of the this concept to the point I can describe how it works.

You go to practice Aikido because there are things you need to learn in the area of martial arts, and aikido can teach you some of those points. Get caught up in the libido, well, you might as well just give up cause you are wasteing your time, on learning to focus, and the physical practice can be invalidated by anyone with focus.

Unless you can refocus and use that libido as an energy source, the signals you might need to visualize when practice becomes necessity will be all wrong.

Gee .... I need to get aroused to fight to my full potential .... this person really turns me off ... I think I had better run for my life screaming for mercy?

Silly, Huh?

Not really.

Training is an attempt to control and focus the rage of battle into energy that does not cloud the mind, or inhibit the body. The same state of mind you would be in for the fight of your life is what you are trying to achieve with practice, but to be in control of your mind and body, not in a mindless brute rage.

Libido? Well, giving in to libido with my wife is a whole lot of fun, but it certainly gets in the way for training. There is a time and place for everything. You certainly would like to treat people the way you would like to be treated, and hopefully that is a good thing, not some dark twisted dream world.

Turn that libido into something positive,even though it will take time and experience to do that ... give it time, let the process create the separation of training and love life, because the emotional ties of bringing the two together are a killer.

Everyone is seaching for someone, to find a soulmate, don't let that instinctual urge overwhelm you. Instead, take two steps back, do the right thing, and see where it goes. Just let practice happen because it is practice, and realize that one day, the protocols you set in your mind for your moral character will get enough control that your practice will be ten times more inciteful than it is today.

Why? Not because you have learned to control libido, but because the emotional catalysts that increase the reactions of instinctual libido will be controled by morality, proper visualizaton of mind to body, and time has satisfied most of those lustful thoughts in such a manner, that you know your limits, and practice is no longer withing the libido forum.

At least not it will be under control ... more or less.

Give it time. Put things into perspective. It will work out.

Why do you think old guys have such good transition skills? Libido is where it is supposed to be .... and it ain't on the dojo practice mat.
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Old 07-30-2004, 02:33 PM   #103
IP Hash: 464cdace
Anonymous User
Talking Re: Aikido and Libido

ooopps....I have been practicing Aikido for almost 8 years

...not sure if it helps increase libido but if it does, I'd be absolutely happy hahaha

Probably I need to pay more attention on my female Aikido partners and see if their libido increase haha

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Old 08-03-2004, 11:16 PM   #104
Jeanne Shepard
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Re: Aikido and Libido

I think Aikido is sort of like dancing, an excuse, in our cold society, to put our arms around someone.

(I like to dance, too!)

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Old 12-08-2004, 12:23 PM   #105
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Re: Aikido and Libido

One of the main purposes of Aikido: Ki-iku, Tai-iku, Toku-iku, Joshiki-no-Kanyo.
(Development of the Spirit, Development of the Body, Development of the Ethics, Development of Common Sense)

When developing Spirit and Body in Aikido, we develop them without reference to any particular use, but through Aikido. The Spirit and Body can be used for many things including fighting, sex, work, play, etc. So it is undoubted that if the Spirit and Body are being developed, they can be focused towards Lust and Libido as well as the practice of Aikido. This is natural.
However, if we let our Spirit or Body get in the way of our development, then we will no longer develop. If a feeling of frustration, a feeling of lust, a feeling of anger, a feeling of superiority are imbued with our Spirit and Body, then that feeling gets in the way of our further development for the feeling takes over the practice. At the same time, if the feelings are not accepted and harmonised with our activity, then we will not develop either. We must inbue our Spirit and Body with those feeling, not the other way around.
We must also consider the development of our Ethics and Common Sense. To allow behaviour other than the practice of good Aikido in the dojo is poor Ethics and poor Common Sense. So we do not act out our lust or dislike in the dojo.
Rule in my dojo. Feel what you like. Act properly in the dojo. That goes for lust, hate, dislike, love, displeasure, enjoyment. You should feel all those things in the dojo, and more. However, act appropriately. In publc, as representatives of the dojo, act appropriately. In privacy, do what you like. Kind of like smoking.

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Old 12-08-2004, 01:46 PM   #106
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
Re: Aikido and Libido

"sort of like dancing"

Good title for a book that
Only joking, I agree, though I think some people don't stay with aikido for the same reason. The close contact freaks them out. I heard of a dojo where everyone hugs each other at the end of class, thought that was sweet, though maybe a bit OTT.

I think that that the need for/fear of, human touch is a separate issue from libido though. Different drive, but obviously they're grey areas.

Do it often, do it well, do it carefully,

PS Mr Izumi are you really posting about libido from a place called "bottom bay"? [Juvenile giggles]
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Old 12-08-2004, 02:24 PM   #107
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Re: Aikido and Libido

Mark Walsh wrote:
PS Mr Izumi are you really posting about libido from a place called "bottom bay"? [Juvenile giggles]
Yes, and finally, someone noticed. But it has not to do with the libido but with the key characteristic of the Aiki-Penitents (see General thread on "Shodothugs, etc.)

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Old 12-09-2004, 05:02 PM   #108
Location: Florida, USA
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 185
Re: Aikido and Libido

I don't know how to phrase this delicately, has anyone else noticed an increase in libido after beginning aikido training? Through the training and physical contact I am starting to have a realization of people's "fleshiness." Other people seem more real to me somehow. This new sense has caused me to see members of the opposite sex in a new light. In everyday interactions I have a more physical sense of their being. Maybe it's a natural side effect of aikido training?
Maybe it's just me.
If you're a guy it's because you're probably more active than before and therefore have an increase in testosterone levels resulting in said effect.
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:35 PM   #109
IP Hash: c7b43dcc
Anonymous User
Re: Aikido and Libido

Whether it can be termed good or bad, black or white, or any other value-added pair of opposites, instant pangs of "hit-you-in-the-gut" attraction happen (as well as the slower approach), on or off the mat. It's how you deal with it under the given circumstances that counts.

Unless you're in a marriage someone arranged for you, you most likely found your significant other (if you have one, that is) because you were attracted to him/her and managed to act appropriately. In training, it's just another thing to learn from. I don't think not acknowledging that this happens is desirable. Not acting on it can very well be.

Humans are social animals, every day we react to millions of things about each other that our conscious "me" is not aware of until the effect fully manifests itself. If aikido is about connecting, we must acknowledge all those things, even those we don't like, in ourselves and each other.
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