|
|
Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.
If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!
|
02-12-2008, 07:33 AM
|
#1
|
Dojo: Hakusan A.K.I.
Location: Chile
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 54
Offline
|
Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
It seem that many people donīt know difference between this two techniques, I have review some aikido books and for me isn't still clear.
If anybody can tell me, how to perform well this technique I will be grateful.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 08:27 AM
|
#2
|
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
Offline
|
Re: Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
This is a very good question, but I doubt many people will be able to give you a good answer over the internet. I suggest asking your instructor, then carefully note his answer. Take those notes, and check that understanding with someone who is known for having good access to the physical skills of jin / aiki / kokyu. That should get you on the correct path.
Best,
Ron
|
Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 08:46 AM
|
#3
|
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
Offline
|
Re: Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
I would think that the main difference is that sumi otoshi utilizes the forearm in an outward and down circular motion that results in the uke doing a breakfall. Also, as the name implies, sumi otoshi is applied in diagonal angles relative to the uke's direction.
Kokyu nage leaves little to be described technically, but is executed by solely relying on musubi, blending, timing and distance. A kokyu nage done from the stance you described would be make use of the flow of uke's energy forward, I believe, instead of a diagonal direction.
|
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 09:02 AM
|
#4
|
Dojo: Hakusan A.K.I.
Location: Chile
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 54
Offline
|
Re: Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
Instead of applying ki to Uke's center, you applies ki to the arm looking for a corner direction, that's what you mean?
|
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 09:30 AM
|
#5
|
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
Offline
|
Re: Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
I'm afraid I'm not sure how to describe it in those terms, but let me suggest that you practice sumi otoshi and kokyu nage each in different ways. For example, practice your ushiro ryote tori kokyu nage and yokomen uchi sumi otoshi; both are very different in their application. Find what makes each one work, then come back to this question, and I think you will see it more clearly.
|
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 09:17 PM
|
#6
|
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Offline
|
Re: Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
Quote:
Manuel Aldunate wrote:
It seem that many people donīt know difference between this two techniques, I have review some aikido books and for me isn't still clear.
If anybody can tell me, how to perform well this technique I will be grateful.
Thanks
|
My version of these two are as such:
Kokyu-nage - circular and gradual. (NB: Kokyu -nage is a very generic term, it usually means anything that is not of the official technical syllabus but yet able to get uke's ass on the floor)
Sumi-otoshi - circular and a with sudden sharp change in direction.
Some images of sumi-otoshi from the internet:
Kodokan version (notice it starts from grappling range)
Shodokan version (notice it starts at arms-length)
Boon.
|
SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
|
|
|
02-13-2008, 02:00 AM
|
#7
|
Dojo: Yongsan Aikikai
Location: But now I'm in the UK
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 212
Offline
|
Re: Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote:
(NB: Kokyu -nage is a very generic term, it usually means anything that is not of the official technical syllabus but yet able to get uke's ass on the floor)
Boon.
|
I like that explanation....
|
|
|
|
02-16-2008, 12:19 AM
|
#8
|
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Offline
|
Re: Diference between Gyaku hanmi katate dori Sumi Otoshi and kokyunage
I would like to comment on the two gif pics I link up earlier...
Pls note that the pics are shown in kihon manner, i.e., the uke are totally compliant and going with the flow to demonstate the technique per se.
In randori/shiai/deathmatch nage have to create kuzushi, in the case of judo.. by pulling, pushing grip fighting. I think shodokan people will rely more on tai-sabaki, timing and seizing the opportunity.
Boon.
|
SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:21 AM.
|
vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
|
|