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Old 07-05-2005, 12:49 PM   #26
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 395
Re: Different aikido concepts

lol sry mike gallagher
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Old 07-06-2005, 02:46 AM   #27
Dirk Hanss
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Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Re: Different aikido concepts

There is not much, I can add.
"The first move is a tsuki", I read recently. And I do not see, why most of you thought, it could only be the free hand.
Well to me the phrase is quite familiar. generally said: "Uke should not try to loose contact, as he has to protect himself. If not he might get pain." In some kokyu-nage we are told: "If you do not jump, I 'll grap your balls."
But this phrase is followed by: "Naturally in Aikido we do not do this (hurt, kill, etc.). We change the technique. But at the moment we are practicing this shiho-nage and uke should behave well." It is not that sensei is repeating this in each time, but often enough that no one of us should be confused. So in each lesson where such techniques are trained more often, at least once.

So just saying " Now, if u dont continue to hold on to my wrist, then i'm going to poke out your eyes w/my fingers", should have a plan B.If you are attacked by a much stronger, well trained or armed fellow, and you do not have the skills to change, but the attacker does not hold your wrist, yes punch with your fingers into the eyes or wherever you get him.
In training you do it step by step, and when you are confident in the uke's grip you can increase the power of the atemi, always being ready to stop to avoid accidents.
Perhaps you might be faced to a drunk, weak person, who just graps your hand to talk to you, but of course, you do not like it. You try a light shiho-nage, just to make clear your wishes, but as "uke" does not grip firmly, you poke out his/her eyes.
Legal aspects may differ from country to country, but that is definitely not the "do" of "aiki" that I want to go.

Well the example is somehow extreme. I just wanted to point out that the idea is understood as common for Aikido, and I accept that 30 minutes are not enough to explain each aspect in detail. But a teacher should be careful with what his students might understand and what might be results.


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Old 07-06-2005, 07:15 AM   #28
Peter Seth
Dojo: Zanshin. Sunderland University
Location: Sunderland
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 124
Smile Re: Different aikido concepts

Hi Paige & everyone.
Try this - (Very simplistically explained) From the Ai Hanmi attack the irimi movement you describe breaks down into three initial parts
1). Change your MAI in relation to your attackers (Uke's), this will move them 'out of their time' and into yours, simultaneously creating both mental and physical imbalance in Uke.
2). At the same time, using TE KATANA (hand blade) and unbendable arm in a small circle manner, redirect uke's energy by turning/bending their wrist towards them.
3). With uke imbalanced and his energy redirected, using your open fingers as a channel for your energy flow, turn his arm/hand still gripping your wrist in a circular manner towards his face/eyes.

Effects -
1). Encourages uke to retain his grip. so as not to be hit
2). Disturbs his balance even more. ('Leads' him diagonally towards his so called 'third leg position') where he cannot brace himself.
This leads to any technique you may need.

As stated this 'irimi' movement is explained in a very basic manner. But I think the fact that the 'Move' was brought up, illustrates the point that maybe too much emphasis is placed on 'technique'. And not enough on position, attaining uke's imbalance (both mentally and physically), form, redirection of energy etc - all the things which allow you to be in a position to apply 'technique'.

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Old 07-06-2005, 06:19 PM   #29
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 980
Re: Different aikido concepts

Kevin Leavitt wrote:
good points Mike (not Michael Stuempel )
Thanks. But that said, there's one little caveat to add: IMHO, if your sensei uses the grab-as-strike-defense setup, you do what he tells you to do. You may not like it, but he (or she) is the sensei, not you, so you do what they tell you. Period. At least IMO.

And who knows? Now that I think about it, maybe ther are noodnigs dumb enough to try and grab a punch with one hand, and you can go straight into kokyu nage. Which is a beauiful thing if you (a) get it to work and (b) there's a brick wall in the scenario. Think about it.
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Old 07-07-2005, 05:01 PM   #30
Kevin Leavitt
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Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Re: Different aikido concepts

I simply love kokyu nage....and kaiten nage! I find kokyu nage hard to do, but kaiten nage much easier from atemi.
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