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07-24-2009, 02:40 PM
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#1
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Location: Cologne
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Hi everybody!
I am looking for a little bit of historical information on Aikido..
The thing is, I am interested in the naming of techiques which is very structured and concise (if I understood correctly, I'm still a bit of a newbie in this aikido thing), e.g. ai hanmi ikkyo ura waza and follows the principle attack - techique - mode. In librarianship this would be called a facetted classification.
Does anyone of you know if this naming konvention existed from the start on? Or did Ueshiba use different names and someone sorted it all out at a later date?
Any information would be much appreciated!
Have a nice day and greetings from Cologne
Peter
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07-24-2009, 02:54 PM
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#2
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Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 394
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
You are opening a big can of worms with this question!
Not everybody uses the same name for the same technique. For instance, Yoshinkan uses the word "mochi" but Aikikai uses the word "tori". Both words mean to grab, to grasp, etc... something. You need an encyclopedia to figure everything out.
Also, in the old days a lot of techniques were disguised by the naming. The name actually did not describe what was being done or on what part of the body to attack. You had to be part of the "family" to understand what was actually happening. For example, shihonage just means four direction throw but it in no way describes what is being done.
Lastly, not all the words in the technique is said. An instructor could just call out part of the technique yet the student knows exactly what version needs to be demonstrated. Again, you need to be part of the "family" to understand what is being asked of you.
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07-24-2009, 04:19 PM
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#3
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Our organisation call ai hanmi 'gyaku [hanmi] katate-dori', which to most I believe would be completely the wrong way around There aren't really any standards.
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07-24-2009, 04:24 PM
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#4
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Location: Cologne
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Quote:
Not everybody uses the same name for the same technique.
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Quote:
There aren't really any standards.
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Too bad! I guess that's the librarian in me who wants to see nice little organisations schemes everywhere..
Thanks for your answers!
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07-24-2009, 04:28 PM
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#5
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Quote:
Peter Mayr wrote:
Too bad! I guess that's the librarian in me who wants to see nice little organisations schemes everywhere..
Thanks for your answers!
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Hmmm, Aikido classified by the Dewey Decimal System.
Sounds just the project for a librarian.
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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07-24-2009, 04:32 PM
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#6
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Location: Cologne
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
Hmmm, Aikido classified by the Dewey Decimal System.
Sounds just the project for a librarian.
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Dewey is soo last year
My goal was to go in the direction of the Colon Classification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_classification with the faces "attack", "technique", "mode"
-> "ai-hanmi" : "ikkyo" : "omote waza"
all the best,
peter
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07-24-2009, 05:42 PM
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#7
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Quote:
Peter Mayr wrote:
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"ai-hanmi" is not an attack, it is a description of the stances of tori and uke relative to each other.
http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia?entryID=8
Quote:
AI HANMI 相半身
Same, or matched stance. Attacker and defender have the same foot forward. See GYAKU HANMI.
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The complete description of the attack would be "ai hanmi katate-dori" (matched stance one hand grab); some dojos would use "ai hanmi kosa-dori" or simply "kosa-dori" (cross hand grab)... Yoshinkan
dojos would use "katate aya-mochi".
As for the mode, where Aikikai dojos would use "omote" and "ura", Yoshinkan dojos would simply use "ichi" (one) and "ni" (two).
Here is an example:
Aikikai:
Gyaku hanmi Katate-dori Shiho-Nage Ura
Yoshinkan:
Katate-mochi Shiho Nage (Ni)
Both describe essentially the same technique.
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-24-2009, 05:52 PM
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#8
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Quote:
Peter Mayr wrote:
Dewey is soo last year
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Well, so am I.
David
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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07-24-2009, 09:30 PM
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#9
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Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 167
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Terry Dobson said that in all his time at Hombu he never heard O-Sensei call any technique by name.
Jim Baker
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Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
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07-24-2009, 10:27 PM
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#10
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Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Colon notation would be difficult. It might be something like
"relative vertical" : "relative horizontal" : "attack" : "technique" : "mode"
Examples:
"tachi-tori / suwari-waza / hanmi handachi" :
"ai-hanmi / gyaku-hanmi / ushiro-waza" :
"shomen-uchi / yokomen-uchi / etc." :
"ikkyo" :
"omote waza"
As an aside, I never could much care about ai-hanmi verse gyaku-hanmi. Whenever someone corrects my initial stance prior to my symbolic attack, I generally just thank them and think "give me a break; what's the big difference here?!"
Rob
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07-25-2009, 01:25 AM
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#11
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 122
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
For example, shihonage just means four direction throw but it in no way describes what is being done.
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Actually, it does make sense to read it as a 'full turn' throw. What means that you are facing four directions (North,East,South,West).
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07-25-2009, 02:47 AM
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#12
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Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Here are a couple of differences for you:
- Hijikime Osae = Rokkyo
- Ryote Tori: Koshinage Kote Hineri = Ryote Tori: Koshinage Sankyo
Also it seems everyone uses the term Kaiten Nage, where as we use the distinction of Uchi Kaiten Nage [under the arm on the inside] and Soto Kaiten Nage [outside the arm]
Terms can be fun, especially when they start to sound the same...
Peace
dAlen
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07-25-2009, 06:02 AM
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#13
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
And then there's the Shodokan (Tomiki) nomenclature which is also different
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-25-2009, 10:33 AM
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#14
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,049
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Here is the "Cross-Style Aikido Technique Names Reference Chart" article in the AikiWeb AikiWiki:
http://www.aikiweb.com/wiki/Techniqueschart
Although not "historical," per se, the chart may give you directions in which to conduct research into the technique names.
From what I understand, the names were not introduced by the founder but were applied by folks such as Kisshomaru Ueshiba sensei and Koichi Tohei sensei. Can anyone clarify?
I agree that many of the names are not very descriptive but are post-scriptive at best and jargon on average. If you go up to a non-budo-practicing Japanese person and ask them to do "shihonage," "ikkyo/ikkajo," "kaitennage," or myriad other aikido techniques, they would most likely have no idea how -- just as asking someone to do the "four direction throw" in an English speaking country would most likely yield the same, puzzled results. Even the more descriptive names (in my mind) as "kote mawashi" (nikyo) wouldn't mean much to people who didn't already know what the term mean.
Just my thoughts.
-- Jun
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07-25-2009, 11:47 AM
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#15
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Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
Just for interest sake, here is a [complete] list of techniques learned 6th - 1st kyu in my organization. [minus attack names]
The main differences is that we have Uchi & Soto Kaiten Nage, along with Omote & Ura versions of them. [They are not one and the same.]
Also note that Gyaku Kote Gaeshi is not the same as Gyaku Hanmi Kote Gaeshi - [its not an attack - the difference is the hand used in the Kote Gaeshi technique... which is the one mirroring the attacker.]
Other than that we have some of the older name conventions, as pointed out... not sure about the 1st Kyu stuff which has an (*) asterik beside it.
Indeed the names can vary widely between organizations, and the list Jun gave does help...
Peace
dAlen
Nage Waza: Throwing Techniques
Shiho Nage
Irimi Nage
Uchi & Soto Kaiten Nage............[Uchi Kaiten Sankyo]
Kote Gaeshi..............................[Gyaku Kote Gaeshi]
Udekime Nage
Tenchi Nage
Kubi Nage
Koshi Nage...............................[Koshi Nage Kote Hineri/Sankyo]
Kokyu Nage
Kokyu Ho
Sumi Otoshi
*Ganseki Otoshi
*Ushiro Kiri Otoshi
*Aiki Otoshi
*Juji Garami
Katame Waza: Pinning Techniques
Ikkyo
Nikkyo
Sankyo
Yankyo
Gokyo
Hijikime Osae/Rokkyo
Last edited by dalen7 : 07-25-2009 at 11:58 AM.
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07-25-2009, 12:34 PM
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#16
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Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,502
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Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques
IMHO you will never see a reunification of the naming conventions, any more than you will see reunification of the different ryus. Even if someone went to all the trouble of classifying and naming all the variations, there will be those who will not join the fold simply because they don't believe in conformity. You will most likely be taught some derivative of what your teacher was taught, which is likely a further derivative of what his/her teacher was taught, etc. etc. etc... Knowing the names is not nearly as important as knowing the techniques.
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