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Old 12-30-2015, 10:36 AM   #26
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 829
United Kingdom
Re: Origins of Yoshinkan bokken/jo techniques?

Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Fwiw though...Saito could be calling these routines awase because they are practiced from tips-touching distance
My understanding is that these are called awase not because of the maai but because the partners blend with each other as opposed to training "by the numbers" - a preliminary step for the awase practice.

More here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geIIkMkG4Jw

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Old 12-30-2015, 03:02 PM   #27
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Re: Origins of Yoshinkan bokken/jo techniques?

Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Ha! Thanks for that, answers my implicit question "who is it who calls these moves awase?"

This also serves as an example of why insisting that some use of a Japanese word is wrong inevitably leads to embarrassment.
Two sides to that coin, neh? I think the point is to quote Sportin' Life from Porgy and Bess "It ain't necessarily so..." That's all...

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Old 12-31-2015, 12:52 PM   #28
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
Re: Origins of Yoshinkan bokken/jo techniques?

Without the kanji, it's hard to say exactly which "awase" is meant, but all the senses of the word that I could find had to do with joining, blending, matching, etc. None had anything to do with encounter distance, or with something being basic vs. advanced.


Incidentally, one of the possible alternatives is 合わせ. I'm sure a few of you will recognize that first character...


Last edited by kewms : 12-31-2015 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 04:07 PM   #29
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 433
Re: Origins of Yoshinkan bokken/jo techniques?


Taigi 29 from Ki Aikido, for comparison. More in common than I expected, and yet a very different flavor. Nage pretty much holds the center line.

Last edited by rugwithlegs : 12-31-2015 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:28 AM   #30
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Re: Origins of Yoshinkan bokken/jo techniques?

Here is an observation: I found a video for Chiba's sansho (which are some really great Aiki weapons kata) which indicated that thirty odd basic forms must be learned before doing them. The video of of Saito's awase that David posted above says that the awase forms are prerequisites for kumitachi.

So you teach abstracted techniques first, then put them together into kata in some aiki weapons traditions.

Fwiw older koryu, in particular Shinkage ryu schools but this probably applies to older Shinto ryu schools as well, do it the other way around. Long kata sequences are taught first. Exposition of single techniques takes place in later kata, or in sidebar conversation with the instructor.

Learning and practicing the longer kata first gives the trainee lots of opportunity to internalize a context for the basic movements by the time they are pulled out and analyzed.
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Old 03-19-2019, 03:33 PM   #31
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 36
Re: Origins of Yoshinkan bokken/jo techniques?

This is a good read on the matter:

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