Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > AikiWeb System

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2002, 12:01 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,320
Offline
AikiWeb Poll for the week of October 27, 2002:

Do you think aikido is a good "first" martial art?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes
  • No
Here are the current results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2002, 07:56 AM   #2
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
It is if it's taught and practiced properly.

That's kind of a "universal" rule. Aikido is no better or worse than many other disciplines that can become art and Way.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2002, 09:32 AM   #3
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,902
United_States
Offline
IMHO, personally, I am glad Aikido was not my first art. I don't really think I would appreciate the subtleties or applications. I like giving and receiving a strong committed attack and feel that other arts gave me a better base than I have experienced from most Aikidokas. I think this is a major criticism of Aikido, its lack of ability to really train against strong committed attacks.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2002, 10:29 AM   #4
Amendes
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 130
Offline
I am sure glad it was my first martial art.

Now I do Aikido, Tai Chi, and Pencak Silat.

If I had the time I would do Taekwondo too.

Most people I know started something else then came to Aikido. I guess I am the odd one that went backwards.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2002, 02:32 PM   #5
Choku Tsuki
 
Choku Tsuki's Avatar
Dojo: Bond Street Dojo
Location: New York, New York
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 123
United_States
Offline
Aikidoka I feel are the best to learn from (who have the most insight) started elsewhere and ended up with aikido.

Aikido is the perfect destination; but only after you've disproved "the grass is greener" theory for yourself by playing with other arts.

--Chuck

Last edited by Choku Tsuki : 10-27-2002 at 02:37 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 12:52 AM   #6
Jucas
Dojo: Multnomah Aikikai
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 39
Offline
But this comming from martial artists from varying backgrounds? Why? Aikido has been an absolutely amazing first art from my stand point. Not only are the majority of aikido folk, fun loving, fullfilled people, but the art itself is the same. I don't see any disadvantages starting from aikido personally.

Lynn, I thought aikido was about controlling comitted attacks. In my experience it has always been about redirecting a commited attacks, many times uncommited attacks lead to uncommited techniques.

I am sure in some point in my life I will try, or at least train with other martial arts/ists, but I will train aikido first and foremost for the rest of my life, and in my daily existence as human.

  • Like a rotten log half burried in the ground.
  • My Life which has not flowered.
  • Comes to this sad end.
-Minamoto Yorimasa
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 05:00 AM   #7
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
I would agree with Lynn in that I think other martial arts give you a fuller understanding of the reasons behind why we do some things and not others. Anyone could invent flwoing movements to redirect an attack, but what aikido does is also to limit further strikes from the attacker (in most cases) and put yourself in a safe position whilst providing you with the opportunity to do useful strikes.

For example, unless you know that striking under the armpit or in the ribs, and also on the back of the neck are very useful (damaging) blows, ikkyo looses some meaning.

Although I started in aikido, I did other martial arts, but I found the people I trained with in aikido actually considered such things more than many other martial arts which often have more rigid thoughts towards forms of attack and defence.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 07:20 AM   #8
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 97
Offline
I think Aikido, (at least Yoshinkan; i dont know how other styles train) is the best martial art to start out with because it teaches you two important things:

1. Body basics: we learn how to remain in a stable posture and use our power (not muscle power) properly. ex. lowering your hips, center line, hip power. We learn the proper way to move so we can maximize this power.

2. Aikido is about co-operation and respect for your opponent. It teaches us the best way to train so we can learn from one another.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 10:54 AM   #9
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
I'm afraid I did have a slight problem with this poll as I've found yes and no to be the answer. We've found that younger children often want "to be like buffy" in martial arts, so aikido hasn't proved to be a good first martial art for them. However, I've been lucky enough to teach some people who never dreamed they'd learn a martial art because of age/physical problems and have found aikido to be excellent.

[insert badly translated smug admonishment here]
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 11:25 AM   #10
Guest5678
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 135
Offline
NO! Reason?

simple: A person should learn how to fight prior to understanding how not to..

-Mongo
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 11:42 AM   #11
Wormwood
 
Wormwood's Avatar
Dojo: Fredericton Aikido Dojo
Location: Fredericton, NB
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
Offline
Quote:
Daniel Pokorny (Mongo) wrote:
NO! Reason?

simple: A person should learn how to fight prior to understanding how not to..

-Mongo
What about never having to learn to fight at all, is that not simpler.

Nathan
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 12:35 PM   #12
timcraig
Dojo: Northeast Aikikai
Location: Waltham, MA
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 14
Offline
it's simpler, but in my opinion, it's better to know and not need to know, than to need to know and not know.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 02:03 PM   #13
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
Offline
Having done no other martial art for close to 20 years, my vote is that aikido is a terrific first, last, and only martial art!

Nothing against doing multiple arts, but why the need? I have learned committed attacks through aikido. I don't think my aikido has suffered due to lack of some other art. This is a question that each individual answers for themselves, and cannot be answered universally in this type of forum; but for me, the answer is an overwhelming yes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 02:21 PM   #14
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
Good for what?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 02:40 PM   #15
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Nathan Trail (Wormwood) wrote:
What about never having to learn to fight at all, is that not simpler.
In order to really be able to "not fight" you must be able to make a choice. Unless you can "fight" there is no decision to make.

We begin this practice learning to throw people down and when we can do that efficiently, we learn how to not throw people down.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 03:42 PM   #16
Peter Malecek
Dojo: Sei Aikido Dojo (Prague)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 24
Offline
Coming from a background of Judo and Karate (as well as that well known Canadian combative art Jr'A'hockey-do) I am of the opinion that there may very well be a real advantage to prior martial art training when first coming to aikido for most people.

I was however fortunate in that most of my teachers stressed basics (Kyhon-Dosa, Kihon Giho as well as atemi application) so that I am open to the arguement that a good teacher/dojo that teaches the correct delivery of atemi and spends time on the physical realities of the techniques (eg. blocking, stance, distance, moving off line etc.)could negate the advantage of having prior martial art training for some or maybe even most beginers.

In fact first hand (first black eye, first busted lip....)experience with military combative training has demostrated the martial abilities of certain, all be it very motivated, people who had no prior martial arts training.

Peter
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 03:52 PM   #17
kklipsch
Dojo: Soshinkan - AAA
Location: Chicago
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8
Offline
I would be very interested in what some of the longtime Aikido instructors in the group who came to Aikido from other things have to say. Sensei Clark, I beleive your background was in something else, but you have taught many people over the years. What do you think?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 08:00 PM   #18
Usagi
Dojo: ShinToKai
Location: Salvador-Bahia/Brazil
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 21
Offline
Quote:
Peter Malecek wrote:
Coming from a background of Judo and Karate (as well as that well known Canadian combative art Jr'A'hockey-do)
Jr'A'hockey-do...isn't that a variation of Kanadaajin Daigakkou ShinNaginata?

Back to topic...

The problem, imho, is that in AiKiDo, to get punched in the face usually is an acident.

In my view, if you never got punched in the face in a fight, you may end up being tooooo cautious in a fight.

I believe aikidoka (at least instructors) should engage in boxing at least,to see the other side of the fence.

But a reasonable person may work out combat with AiKiDo only, as long as he/she uses common sense.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and i- i took the one less traveled by,- and that has made all the diference!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2002, 10:51 PM   #19
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Kasey Klipsch (kklipsch) wrote:
I would be very interested in what some of the longtime Aikido instructors in the group who came to Aikido from other things have to say. Sensei Clark, I beleive your background was in something else, but you have taught many people over the years. What do you think?
Hello,

I don't think I know you, do you know Don Levine at the university club?

Anyhow, this is a loaded question. "Aikido" is taught in many different ways. Some I agree with and some I do not. For example, I have seen some dojo where the instruction for ukemi is - "do a roll like that guy over there for this technique." Sort of like learning to swim by being thrown into the lake. Some learn and many don't.

I started out with judo when I was six and added GoJu ryu karate-do at twelve or so along with a form of jujutsu that my teacher called "Okazaki ryu" (Danzan ryu) in 1959. I learned to punch, kick, throw, grapple, etc. early. I saw Tohei sensei in California in 1964 and knew I wanted to learn aikido. Lots of water under the bridge since then...I met a Chinese man named Mr. Li in 1965 and I left the "dark side of the force" and dove deeply into the internal arts. I have come to the conclusion now, just shy of my 50th year of practice (some 38 years of teaching experience of one quality or another...) that whether technique is "hard" or "soft" is determined by intent, distance, and timing changes, not by how much muscle you have or how fast you are.

How would I teach beginners? Simple, just like I do now, and I call it aikibudo, aikijutsu, aikido...I think they're all shades of the same thing. My students are taught a principle based system. Techniques are just examples of how fundamentals are hooked together, etc. Shisei, shintai, ukemi, how to attack, how to take balance and fit with the attacker and so on and so on. Students are also taught how to "test" each other often so there is a strong feedback loop in our practice.

Is this a good system to start with yes. By all means. It's why I do it. That simple. If I knew a better way, I'd do it. Do other people agree? Some do, and some don't. That's the nature of things.

Your question was what do I think about aikido as a first art...there it is. Like many other questions in life the answer is ... Yes/No.

Sincerely,

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2002, 07:15 AM   #20
Guest5678
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 135
Offline
Quote:
Rachel Massey (rachmass) wrote:
Having done no other martial art for close to 20 years, my vote is that aikido is a terrific first, last, and only martial art!

Nothing against doing multiple arts, but why the need?
Experience..... with various attacks and techniques you normally won't get in your Aikido dojo. Also, it really helps us maintain the beginners mind!
Quote:
Rachel Massey (rachmass) wrote:
I have learned committed attacks through aikido.
Committed? ok..... well, have you put on some head gear, light gloves and shin guards and have uke REALLY try to knock you out....? (Boxing)

Ever train with an active college level wrestler? Someone that can really shoot in on you, bring you down and pin you?

(Wrestling or even Judo)

Now I haven't been to your dojo, but I'd venture to say that I doubt you'll be working at this level of "commitment" in your daily Aikido practice....
Quote:
Rachel Massey (rachmass) wrote:
I don't think my aikido has suffered due to lack of some other art. This is a question that each individual answers for themselves, and cannot be answered universally in this type of forum; but for me, the answer is an overwhelming yes.
Suffered? certainly not! But it can expand greatly with other experiences..

I believe all martial art styles have someting to offer and should be explored whenever possible. To limit our experience is to limit our knowledge....

-Mongo
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2002, 07:30 AM   #21
Guest5678
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 135
Offline
Quote:
Nathan Trail (Wormwood) wrote:
What about never having to learn to fight at all, is that not simpler.

Nathan
Certainly would be, and perhaps one day we will realize that concept after the mothership returns and takes away all the horrible violent bad people in the world... jeeeez!

-Mongo
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2002, 08:47 AM   #22
Ta Kung
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 237
Offline
I voted no.

A thought: We want a strong and comited attack from our uke, but we never practise attacks in Aikido. The attacks are often, but not alwawys, lame (as many threeds here prove).

A former Karateka can throw a tsuki that is committed. An Aikidoka (who has no other martial arts training) can merely mimik that motion, with more or less success. For most of us, there is a difference. A real tsuki is not something every one does good automaticly. You need to practise it, not just mimik it. Otherwise you could learn Kung-fu just from watching movies...

Also, I find Aikido to be a bit harder to learn than other arts. Other arts use force, Aikido don't, and it's common that newbies compencates lack of technique with strength.

I find that my pre-aikido arts (judo and taekwon-do) has helped me a lot in my Aikido. I feel no need to "move on" to another art.

/Patrik
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2002, 09:19 AM   #23
Wormwood
 
Wormwood's Avatar
Dojo: Fredericton Aikido Dojo
Location: Fredericton, NB
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
Offline
Quote:
Daniel Pokorny (Mongo) wrote:
Certainly would be, and perhaps one day we will realize that concept after the mothership returns and takes away all the horrible violent bad people in the world... jeeeez!

-Mongo
Note that I did not say that it was realistic, I just said that it was simple, even simpler than your statement. It was a comment on your statement. Just because a statement is simple, does not make it correct.

I was also trying to say that the reason I took up Aikido as my "first" MA (I don't count G/R Wrestling) was so that I would be able to avoid fighting. You don't need to know how to fight to realize that you can live without it and long to avoid it. This is why I choose Aikido, so that when the chaos comes, that I might be able to give order to it to balence it, not with brut force, but by entering and blending.



Nathan
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2002, 11:14 AM   #24
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
NO ... aikido is not a good first martial art.

About half the questions of Aikido not working are because people have not had the experience of training in other martial arts, or understanding the mechanics of Aikido come from a variety of these other arts.

Example.

My 13 year old son, who has had a couple of years of basic karate started Aikido recently, and he not only did the adult class, but easily mastered many of the instructions much quicker than the usual adults who have no previous training.

Then, today, my daughter tried her first class, and although it has been ten years, when she was eleven for her last lesson, she too was able to easily keep up with the normal class with only minor adjustments.

No ... Aikido is not a good first martial art, but it is not to be missed in any persons training.

You must eventually learn some Aikido to make what you learn elsewhere to make it work better.

I know those who have practiced other martial arts truly appreciate the power of Aikido after being in other arts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2002, 07:20 AM   #25
Wormwood
 
Wormwood's Avatar
Dojo: Fredericton Aikido Dojo
Location: Fredericton, NB
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
Offline
Quote:
Bruce Baker wrote:
My 13 year old son, who has had a couple of years of basic karate started Aikido recently, and he not only did the adult class, but easily mastered many of the instructions much quicker than the usual adults who have no previous training.
Bruce, you seem to be saying that if one has previous experience in another MA before they start Aikido, they tend to catch on quicker, and I totally agree with that, actually it is obvious that that would be true. Someone who has experience controlling how there body moves from one MA, learning it from a different MA quickly is not surprising. I think that isn't even the question. The real test would to take a look at different beginners from an assortment of MA and watch how they progress over a year.

If you really want to compare an Aikidoka starter with previous MA experience vs. those without, compare total MA time, not total Aikido time, that is just unfair. ie. karate 2yrs & Aikido 2yrs vs. Aikido 4yrs (comparing two individuals with similar MA aptitude)

Nathan
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steven Seagal Interview ad_adrian General 45 01-15-2010 03:34 PM
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 08:31 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 10:10 AM
Poll: How good do you feel is the overall attacking skills ability at your aikido dojo? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 5 08-18-2005 09:30 AM
choosing between good aikido and nice people Unregistered Anonymous 40 07-04-2003 02:42 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:14 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate