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Old 10-02-2017, 10:04 AM   #26
Mario Tobias
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 261
Philippines
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Ok, riddle me this?! How did you come to this conclusion? How do so many people come to this conclusion concerning Aikido?
movement for the sake of movement does not mean understanding behind the move. One needs to understand why we move certain ways, not only how.

O'Sensei once said that a student could learn all the basics of aikido if he practiced just three techniques: 1)tai-no-henko, 2)morotedori-kokyuho, and 3)suwariwaza-kokyuho. I have my own theory of this based on basic mechanical laws but others may not have a clue. The explanation to this only becomes obvious over a very long period of time. Ever wonder why you can do morotedori on weak people but impossible to move even an inch on people with muscular build. Not bragging but I think I can move everybody no matter what build because I know mechanics theory which I applied to very muscular people in the dojo. The move is trvial but not obvious if one does not understand mechanics..

The dojo is a laboratory and every aikido practice should be treated as experiments. One should postulate theories about techniques which should undergo tests through trial and error. If a theory holds true for all techniques, then it becomes a principle and you do this over time to collect principles. A true master collects principles, he does not collect techniques imo and this takes a lot of time..
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:37 PM   #27
sorokod
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 789
United Kingdom
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

Quote:
Steven Shimanek wrote: View Post
The aikido student in Seattle who used kotegaeshi to disarm a robber with a gun after studying for only 2 months...
Genuinely curious, can you provide more details? A link to an article?

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Old 10-03-2017, 12:57 AM   #28
Mario Tobias
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 261
Philippines
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

I think this is the one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r90w-AXESIk
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:18 AM   #29
sorokod
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 789
United Kingdom
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

Thank you. A (tiny ) bit more here http://blog.aikidojournal.com/2012/0...th-kotegaeshi/

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Old 10-03-2017, 04:49 AM   #30
MrIggy
Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 253
Serbia
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

Quote:
Mario Tobias wrote: View Post
movement for the sake of movement does not mean understanding behind the move. One needs to understand why we move certain ways, not only how.
And it doesn't take 10-20 years to teach somebody this. The point is does your instructor teach you this or not.

Quote:
Ever wonder why you can do morotedori on weak people but impossible to move even an inch on people with muscular build. Not bragging but I think I can move everybody no matter what build because I know mechanics theory which I applied to very muscular people in the dojo. The move is trvial but not obvious if one does not understand mechanics..
If the "weak" person actually knows how to apply morotetori with correct body mechanics you ain't moving them for an inch either without applying proper mechanics of your own. The same is with muscular people. I trained with a friend who is very muscular, he has the forearms of a lumberjack, it took me some time to get the mechanics right, about a couple of months, so I could actually us it on him properly. After that it was drilling to the point it became automatic.

Quote:
The dojo is a laboratory and every aikido practice should be treated as experiments. One should postulate theories about techniques which should undergo tests through trial and error. If a theory holds true for all techniques, then it becomes a principle and you do this over time to collect principles. A true master collects principles, he does not collect techniques imo and this takes a lot of time..
Yes, but if you train in a formed martial system with already developed principles the whole point is to adapt those principles to your own body not to "rediscover" principles that are already there. Then it's mostly a waste of time.
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Old 10-03-2017, 05:26 AM   #31
Mario Tobias
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 261
Philippines
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Yes, but if you train in a formed martial system with already developed principles the whole point is to adapt those principles to your own body not to "rediscover" principles that are already there. Then it's mostly a waste of time.
Our definition of "principle" seems to be different. You don't rediscover something if you havnt discovered or know that something in the first place.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:23 AM   #32
MrIggy
Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 253
Serbia
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

Quote:
Mario Tobias wrote: View Post
Our definition of "principle" seems to be different. You don't rediscover something if you havnt discovered or know that something in the first place.
Yes you do if the instructor doesn't explain it to you. Like I said, when you train in an established system it's preposterous for somebody to train you in a way were you have to "rediscover" a principle. If he doesn't explain to you the mechanics behind the movement rather lets you dabble in the dark for several year my suggestion is to simply abandon that instructor.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:38 PM   #33
nikyu62
Dojo: Aikido Club of American Samoa
Location: American Samoa
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 126
American Samoa
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Re: For everyone who wants to find out if aikido works in the "real world"...

The links above are the incident i was referring to; I got a couple of details wrong. Thanks for posting the links...I share this story with my students to illustrate the effective use of aikido in the real world.
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