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Old 01-31-2004, 12:33 PM   #76
Morpheus
Dojo: Aikido of Park Slope
Location: New York
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
I may be off (again) but I took Chads point to mean that if people want a solely physical, agressive self defense solution, there are surely quicker methods to pursue that are not necessarily a Tao (although they need not be).
The option of using a gun goes out the window when you are not able to use it. They were meant to be used as distance weapons, not up close. Therefore, the need for people in the Army needing to qualify at the range every six months (I'm a veteran).

If you can't aim it, it's useless and at close range, the odds of it being taken from you and being used against you increases exponentially.

Since these instances have been in the news, there's probably a link somewhere with stats on how many people were injured or killed with their own gun.

As I said earlier, I do agree with the rest of what Chad had to say on this thread.

Qasim

**************************************
"If the enemy thinks of the mountains, attack like the sea; and if he thinks of the sea, attack like the mountains. - Miyamoto Musashi - 1584 - 1645
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Old 01-31-2004, 01:08 PM   #77
Chad Sloman
 
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Dojo: Aikido of West Florida, Pensacola, FL
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My point is that there are lots of means of self-defence that are easier and faster than aikido. For instance, you could avoid all human contact, say live in a secret bunker with closed-circuit cameras and motion-sensing automatic weapons. When you start putting "if..then" arguments into the mix, there are always instances where one method of self-defence will never protect you from all harm, i.e...how would you use aikido vs. a nuclear bomb etc... But to say that aikido does not have intrinsic self-defence/martial value is dead wrong. And I even dare say that it has great self defence/martial value. At any rate, when you are attacked, all you can do is enter the fray and rely on your instincts and training. It is useless to think about winning and losing. If it is your karma to lose, then you will; if it is not, then you won't. One may use the argument that there is not much proof to suppose that aikido is a better self-defence MA than others; but how can you gauge that when we strive not to fight or hurt our brothers/sisters. Didn't O-Sensei say something like "You are the ultimate victor when you make your enemy your friend"?

A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.
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Old 01-31-2004, 10:59 PM   #78
James Besenyei
Dojo: North Coast Budo
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: Apr 2003
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A gun, like any weapon, should be studied, the practioner should practice, practice, practice, and he should understand which gun to use. Guns in the modern world can be the ultimate self defense technique - the introduction of the "wonder nine" market is indicative of this, b/c it is small and deadly at close range. I say "can" b/c if one has not trained extensively with his weapon it will no doubt lead to his undoing..either through mistakes of arrogance, or misuse of the weapon. Martial arts (all of them) ultimatley give a person more awareness, more body control, more endurance, and provide the training to remain calm during stressful situations (we have all taken a belt exam under the watchful eye of a teacher!). Similiarly if one has ever trained extensively with a handgun he has come to understand his weapon, like his body in MA's, is an extension of his mind, and is only useful if his mind is clear, calm, and aware.

We walk with our heads bowed not because we are afraid, but rather because we are humble.
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Old 02-01-2004, 05:12 AM   #79
aubrey bannah
Dojo: Yoshinkan Brisbane
Location: aust
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Aikido & handgun defense go hand in hand. Enter, push gun against body & pull trigger.

Pivot, turn push gun against body & pull trigger. The New York police service analized all their shooting's, most happen at less than 3 feet. If you are carrying a pistol for self defence you must evade and counter defend or escape is perferable. FBI studies have shown that it is impossible to draw your firearm safely if a armed attacker is within 20 ft of you.

Such powers I poccess for working in the political field have been derived from the spiritual field. Mahatma Gandhi.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:27 PM   #80
indomaresa
Dojo: Aiki Kenkyukai
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Dec 2001
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sounds like 'equilibrium'

why didn't people incorporate them into gun training?

The road is long...
The path is steep...
So hire a guide to show you the shortcuts
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Old 02-02-2004, 12:53 AM   #81
James Besenyei
Dojo: North Coast Budo
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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For every study indicating one hypothesis, there is another that will indicate another....black is white, on is off, cold is hot, there is no duality... a gun is like a sword, if used properly, with proper training, it is deadly and effective. There are no definites in this world, and "street" studies have shown that it is better to have a gun and not need one, then to need one and not have one. I say this slightly in jest, and mean no ill will, but there is truth hidden in my statement....if one confronts another person in an environment not hospitable to escape- and that other person has a gun- it is fair to assume that if a gun gives one person an advantage in combat, that a gun of equal caliber and range evens the playing field...so while it may be impossible for one to draw a firearm safely in twenty feet (and that is assuming the other party has equal training and muscle memory reflex) without being hurt, it can be safely infered that not drawing a firearm in those twenty feet is even more dangerous... the other party would have no fear of recourse, and if need be could approach a wounded victim without fear of being equally harmed...mutually assured destruction...the point is ........there is no point, gun, no gun, we all make our own choices, and there is ultimatley no wrong answer...Aikido "is" a martial art, and it is better to have a gun than not, in my humble opinion.

We walk with our heads bowed not because we are afraid, but rather because we are humble.
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Old 02-02-2004, 12:45 PM   #82
Morpheus
Dojo: Aikido of Park Slope
Location: New York
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Maresa Sumardi (indomaresa) wrote:
sounds like 'equilibrium'....
Stop reading my mind

Qasim

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"If the enemy thinks of the mountains, attack like the sea; and if he thinks of the sea, attack like the mountains. - Miyamoto Musashi - 1584 - 1645
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