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Old 07-16-2007, 11:09 AM   #176
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

From an Interview with Okumura Shihan, in Aikido Today Magazine #41:
Quote:
"O`Sensei hated Zen. If he found that a student was practicing Zen, he would get very angry with that person."

"If O`Sensei had heard people refer to Aikido as `moving Zen` he would have been very upset.
Referenced in an earlier posting in AIkiweb : http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=32

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 07-16-2007, 03:39 PM   #177
Mark Uttech
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

I would daresay that Okumura Shihan is the one who hated zen. Of course zen itself, is not completely innocent. On the one hand, O'Sensei was a benevolent, enlightened master. On the other hand, (and in zen buddhism, there always is an other hand), O Sensei was also a master with an explosive temper. Go figure.

In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 07-17-2007, 12:54 AM   #178
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

certainly O'Sensei believed in Omoto kyo, which is Shinto
that doesn't mean that he was not influenced by Budhism
and that doesn't mean that Deshimaru's description is not perfect
because even if he had been a bicycle repair man
instead of a Zen monk, it's still true that
"the spirit of competition and power that presides over them is not good, it reflects a distorted vision of life. The root of the martial arts is not there" and "they're simply using the martial arts as playthings; to them they are sports like any others."
at the end of the day, facts are still facts.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:20 AM   #179
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

We spent eight pages of rhetoric with a teenager who has only practiced aikido for two weeks?? Yikes...

Best,
Ron (twoooo weeeeeks.....) from Arnold in the customs line on Mars...

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:38 AM   #180
PeterR
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
We spent eight pages of rhetoric with a teenager who has only practiced aikido for two weeks?? Yikes...
Worse those 8 pages were before he started aikido - I figured youth, inexperience and lack of reading but I was really caught out. We can't be blamed for that though he did list a real live person as his aikido teacher.

Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
Now, even being a teenager who started Aikido two weeks ago I see some value here.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:21 AM   #181
Chuck Clark
 
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Smile Re: Meaning of Competitive?






Chuck Clark
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:27 AM   #182
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

really low
you think it makes any difference?
I can let you know, if you must, that I started Aikido more than two decades ago
and I'm certainly not a teenager
but if you want to get a good lesson in human spirit go to the section in this forum entitled "voices of experience"
because at the end of the day, a truth is still a truth
even if told by a teenager
and a low character is still low
even after 50 years of Aikido

Last edited by tiago : 07-17-2007 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:44 AM   #183
PeterR
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
really low
you think it makes any difference?
I can let you know, if you must, that I started Aikido more than two decades ago
and I'm certainly not a teenager
but if you want to get a good lesson in human spirit go to the section in this forun entitled "voices of experience"
because at the end of the day, a truth is still a truth
even if told by a teenager
and a low character is still low
even after 50 years of Aikido
So basically you are lying to us. Is that it?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:46 AM   #184
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

no
basically you don't understand
that's it

"because... a truth is still a truth, even if told by a teenager"
did you read "voices of experience"?
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:10 AM   #185
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Peter,

out of curiosity I just opened your page (nice page, by the way) and found this:

"I was seriously disappointed finding the art dominated by fat men and women with a serious lack of intensity during practice."

and I understand your point
I think it clarifies a lot of this thread
I know some dojos like that
when all you have in order to test your technique is sincerity
then it's easy to fall in a self-complacent kind of mood, where we all tell each other how great we are (kind of like this forum)
and I understand that some individuals might find a way out through competition, from the need to protect their pride
but you always have to remember two things:

-the energy comes from pride, it's not empty (in the sense Musashi talks about emptiness)

-competition is not more "realistic", as it is necessarily restricted by rules, and it is certainly not necessary for a realistic sincere practice

yes, there are such dojos where everyone is challenged to the limit of their capacities, allowing for growth and contemplating that the development process in Aikido is not linear and not the same for everyone
and without any competition, but cooperation

I'm sorry I don't have more time for this

Last edited by tiago : 07-17-2007 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:47 AM   #186
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
really low
How so? It was said in good humor...

Quote:
you think it makes any difference?
I think it can make a difference. If someone is good at debating a point, but then you find out they have no real world experience in the subject matter, so they don't even understand the basics of the matter...then yes, it can make a HUGE difference.

Quote:
I can let you know, if you must, that I started Aikido more than two decades ago
and I'm certainly not a teenager
Well, that's not what your post said...so I made a little joke of it. If what your post said was incorrect, then why did you type it? If it was a mistake, then there is no need for name calling...just say "I made a mistake".

Quote:
but if you want to get a good lesson in human spirit go to the section in this forum entitled "voices of experience"
because at the end of the day, a truth is still a truth
even if told by a teenager
and a low character is still low
even after 50 years of Aikido
Well, I think the readers can judge for themselves the relative characters on display here. I'll simply leave it to them. As for my own character, still under development, thanks!

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-17-2007, 12:39 PM   #187
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
How so? It was said in good humor...
then, great!
best,
tiago
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:23 PM   #188
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Lol this thread has become totally hilarious. Thanks Ron and Peter for lightening my mood on a tiresome day.

Quote:
competition is not more "realistic", as it is necessarily restricted by rules
Like everything else in life. Why do people always use the rules of competition to indicate a "weakness" of it when everything in life operates under rules of some sort?

Oh well...

Gambatte.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:51 PM   #189
Keith R Lee
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
-competition is not more "realistic", as it is necessarily restricted by rules, and it is certainly not necessary for a realistic sincere practice
Keep telling yourself that, just don't expect a lot of people to agree with you.

Keith Lee
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:25 AM   #190
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

you can keep telling yourself that competition is the real thing
until you need to apply a technique in real life
and discover that the arm dosn't need to be stretched
for the knife to do harm
you see, it doesn't even take long thinking
when you compete, it's a sport,
take it as it is and enjoy it
what I got from Deshimaru's quote is that sports are ok
maybe you didn't realize because of your preconceptions
oh well
gambarimasho

Last edited by tiago : 07-18-2007 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:57 AM   #191
Keith R Lee
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Mostly I'm thinking that you need proper capitalization, punctuation, and proper formatting, not the pseudo-poetry that you keep posting. I can barely parse it.

Honestly, I have no clue what you're saying in the above post. And don't come back with any more:

Quote:
no
basically you don't understand
that's it
because that's BS. Just because someone doesn't get the gist of what you're saying doesn't mean they don't understand you. More than likely it's a result of poor communication and expression on your part, especially as you're barely writing complete sentences. If English isn't your first language, I apologize, I know it can be difficult to communicate across a language barrier. However, I'm assuming it is since you list your home country as the UK.

Have you ever "competed" (*gasp* the horror!) in a fully resistant environment against a trained individual? I'm talking about a striking, grappling, or even MMA environment? Not you and a buddy from the dojo working on something; I'm talking full-on, full-tilt with a well trained and well conditioned athlete from a different MA (judo, BJJ, thai boxing, whatever). It might change your mind about how competition can affect practice.

Last edited by Keith R Lee : 07-18-2007 at 06:05 AM.

Keith Lee
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:58 AM   #192
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
Maybe the answer can be found in his writings:
I was interested to know how you, in particular, would answer. What I meant to write was, what would YOU say it was, in a word.

My answer is, Nature

Thanks for the nice quote.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:55 AM   #193
ChrisMoses
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
you can keep telling yourself that competition is the real thing
you keep making that
assertion, I do not think
it is as you say.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Budo Tanren at Seattle School of Aikido
Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:00 AM   #194
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

And facts are facts.

B,
R (oh yeah...)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:04 AM   #195
Budd
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Inconceivable!

Taikyoku Mind & Body
http://taikyokumindandbody.com
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:22 AM   #196
MM
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote: View Post
you keep making that
assertion, I do not think
it is as you say.
ROTFL!
i'm just glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read this.
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:02 PM   #197
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Amazing!

Again...


Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:08 PM   #198
tarik
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
Amazing!

Again...

No tongues!




Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:29 PM   #199
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote: View Post
it is as you say.
thank you
I'm glad we agree then
best
tiago
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:32 PM   #200
tiago
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

you can keep telling yourself that competition is the real thing, until you need to apply a technique in real life and discover that the arm dosn't need to be stretched for the knife to do harm.

you see, it doesn't even take long thinking.

when you compete, it's a sport, take it as it is and enjoy it.

what I got from Deshimaru's quote is that sports are ok

maybe you didn't realize because of your preconceptions
oh well
gambarimasho

(just in case Keith cannot/doesn't want to use cut and paste)
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