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02-19-2014, 03:27 PM
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#26
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
I was once banned from the ice - yes its true banned from curling. I could say its why I started Aikido ....
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Lol.
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02-19-2014, 05:58 PM
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#27
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
I was once banned from the ice - yes its true banned from curling. I could say its why I started Aikido ....
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When they ban me from curling my lip it won't be anything to sneer at!
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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02-20-2014, 02:02 AM
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#28
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
When they ban me from curling my lip it won't be anything to sneer at!
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True story - I kept dropping the rocks.
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02-20-2014, 09:18 AM
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#29
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Dojo: Taikyoku Budo & Kiko - NY, PA, MD
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,000
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
True story - I kept dropping the rocks.
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So they made you get your rocks off . . the ice.
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02-20-2014, 10:07 AM
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#30
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote:
So they made you get your rocks off . . the ice.
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03-02-2014, 02:42 PM
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#31
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Dojo: Wasabi Dojo
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 290
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Aikido works great in self-defense. Your aikido doesn't work great in your past-self defense situations is all (totally using a cool sensei saying to make my point) , that's because it takes a long time to become proficient in all the variables of movement involved with aikido.
The striking arts start out with a much steeper, meaning quicker, learning curve for their techniques as they are relatively straightforward, one-body systems of movement vs. those of the grappling-based arts (in which aikido seems to fit) being a two-body system of movement, where one body is under the control of one person, while the other is under your control. Much harder to grip all those variables in a couple years training time.
If you want to quickly become proficient at schoolyard brawls, keep getting into fights, but you'd be safer to do them in a boxing gym, or hard-style karate school in which there are regular hard, near-full contact sparring sessions.
Or do competitive judo, that'll work too.
But, I wager that, unless you are a hard case, which I don't think you are due to the way you phrased the initial inquiry, you'll come around to the more cerebral approach of a softer style eventually. Or, like me, get tired of hitting things that hit back, LOL.
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I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
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07-15-2014, 03:20 AM
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#32
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Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
Location: Surabaya
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
that's also what comes to my mind when I see most (not all) Aikido videos on the internet.. I've only found very few good video where the performing Aikidoka(s) at least seem to be able to apply Aikido as a martial art. one of them is this video.
as for myself, all my senseis have always taught me Aikido in a more martial way, not simply as an "Art".. he always told us not to be so close minded and that the basic techniques is not always what they seem to be. shomen-uchi techniques can also be applied for punches to the head, yokomen-uchi can be viewed as hook-punch or mawashi-geri, etc.. once he said to me that he's actually disappointed in how Aikido is being taught in most dojo nowadays.. perhaps it's because the modern world doesn't really need the martial side of Aikido so much anymore. most people who comes to train weren't really looking for the martial side, they just want to get some exercise.
Aikido (especially the fancy techniques) can be used in real martial/fight situation when we understand the essence, which can take decades. when applied in real martial situation, Aikido techniques might not come out as pretty as in the dojo. if you want a fast way to defend against real martial/fight situation, I suggest Krav Maga. since (afaik) the main point of Krav Maga is self-defense, while the main point of Aikido (not Aiki-jujutsu) is harmony, Krav Maga trainings is supposedly more practical..
just my 2 cents.
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07-15-2014, 03:44 AM
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#33
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Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
Location: Surabaya
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Hi Abdul,
when applied in real martial/fight situations, Aikido techniques usually don't come out as pretty and fancy as in the dojo. therefore, most locks CAN be countered, especially when not done and finished correctly. what kind of answer were you expecting from your sensei? if after explaining the fighting situation, your sensei can't give satisfactory solution (assuming you were asking for the correct way to apply the lock), then MAYBE he's only been training Aikido as an Art, not Martial Art.
usually we won't be able to apply Aikido techniques in real martial/fight situations after training for 2 years because our reflexes won't be good enough and we will only be able to think of complicated techniques to use. my seniors who gets into fights a lot told me that we don't need too much technique in an actual fight. he actually only had to use one-two techniques in most of his fights to KO his enemies (people on the street usually have little to no martial skills). he said that what's really important are the basics, like footwork, ma-ai, and controlling balance.
one of my Sensei always told us to have an open mind and not only see things as they appear. a shomen-uchi is just like a punch to the face, a yokomen-uchi is just like a hook-punch or mawashi geri, a katatedori is actually a response for previous attack (shomen-uchi, yokomen-uchi), etc..
IMHO, most people who say that they don't use Aikido in a fight because it's "too deadly", "a peaceful art", etc (but unable to do the techniques in dojo when attacked seriously by a person who don't practice Aikido) are either fooling themselves or afraid of fights or just incompetent.
you might want to check out this video. this is one of the very few Aikido video I found on the internet that shows Aikido in (as close as it gets) real martial/life situation with great quality techniques.
Last edited by dapidmini88 : 07-15-2014 at 03:54 AM.
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07-15-2014, 12:22 PM
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#34
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Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,193
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
David Santana wrote:
you might want to check out this video. this is one of the very few Aikido video I found on the internet that shows Aikido in (as close as it gets) real martial/life situation with great quality techniques.
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This video has nothing to do with martial situations. It is only demo choreography where ‘attacker follows the movements and allows nage to execute beautifully some techniques. Martial implies danger, otherwise it is nice healthy gymnastic.
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Nagababa
ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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07-15-2014, 02:10 PM
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#35
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
This video has nothing to do with martial situations. It is only demo choreography where ‘attacker follows the movements and allows nage to execute beautifully some techniques. Martial implies danger, otherwise it is nice healthy gymnastic.
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Yep. Lovely demo. But a demo.
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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07-17-2014, 11:07 AM
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#36
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Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 362
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
For once totally agree with Szczepan, & not so unusually with Janet.
This is a demo - nicely done but a demo non the less. In a real situation Aikido is a messy, crude and dangerous affair.
Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLT7IqTQzJ0
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07-17-2014, 12:05 PM
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#37
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Ben White wrote:
The reason why Aikido can be termed "deadly" is simply this, the locks and holds work, yet lets bear in mind that they are not always meant to be used as simple submission holds; yes that works in some situations, yet if someone is attacking you physically you may have no option but to use the technique in full and break someones joints or limbs, that is the final end move of several Aikido techniques... If you think as a novice or even intermediate Aikidoa you can over power and lock someone indefinatley, you are likely going to struggle, more so if its against multiple attackers where you have no choice but to render the first and second ones unconcious or with damaged joints / limbs so they are immobile.
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The way it was explained to me is that the locks in aikido were originally intended to immobilize the person just long enough for nage to, say, draw a short sword and kill them. They were never intended to, say, hold the person until the police show up. For starters, in a multiple attacker situation you just don't have that kind of time.
Real situations aren't going to look like big, beautiful kihon waza, it's true. And it's true that it's probably not the art I'd pick if I wanted to be a professional fighter. (Although judo seems to be working pretty well for Ronda Rousey.) But ... Abdul, you said that sankyo worked for you against a pretty big guy, and you're only two years in. If you were to use that sankyo to smack him into a hard surface a couple of times, it wouldn't be long before you didn't have to worry much about fights at school any more. So what's the issue?
Katherine
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07-17-2014, 02:10 PM
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#38
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Dojo: Tampa Judo and Aikido Dojo, Tampa, Fl
Location: Tampa, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 179
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
This BS about aikido works or doesn't work is really tiresome. Any martial art is only as good as the person using it. If you are so worried that it won't work in a fight, then you need to train harder. I have been jumped at ATMs here in the States and over in Europe, used martial arts in Viet Nam, etc, etc. I am triple ranked so I can add whatever I need to at the time. Regardless, if you think your martial art doesn't work or is ineffective, then train harder. Train as though your life depends on it. One day it just might. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else. So if you are dissatisfied with aikido, or any other martial, then take up video games.
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07-19-2014, 10:48 PM
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#39
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Location: Singapore
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Thank you very much !
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07-27-2014, 04:04 AM
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#40
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,670
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Aikido is a system of martial practice. In my own opinion, it was intended to be the study of connection between human beings and humans and their environment. That said, I taught Aikido based Defensive Tactics to Police and Security folks for ten years and everything I taught was used on the street with real bad guys quite successfully. But it didn't look anything like class. It's a lot rougher and uglier. If you are interested in effective street application, you need to practice that way. Traditional Aikido provides a solid foundation but you have to take those principles and learn to apply them freely against people who don't know any ukemi. will break connection as soon as they don't like what is happening, will hit you any chance they get while you try to apply a technique, etc. Robert Koga, Bernie Lau, David Dye and many others used Aikido on the street but they all changed the training paradigm from the formalistic method we use for traditional practice. It just depends on what you want. In my opinion, too much focus on street application will prevent one from getting to the deepest levels of the art. You'll learn good tricks for prevailing but the kind of freestyle, oppositional practice required will be too chaotic to really isolate the most sophisticated principles of the art.
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09-02-2014, 06:59 AM
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#41
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Dojo: Niwa-no-Doro Auburn,Me
Location: Auburn,Me
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
When asking if a martial art is useful in battle you have to first ask when and what was it created for, Aikido was created post war and government approved which means the technical part of the art was not meant for combat.The government was not about to let people be trained to potentially rise against them,however we are influenced by movies but forget they are movies.Also you would never want to apply a technique to someone who is fully aware of what you are doing that's where striking becomes a crucial part, that's why when you train you should always do so with no resistance. If the technique can not be easily applied then you should continue striking until it can be.Trying to apply technique against resistance only teaches you to struggle with someone over a lock when the you know what hits the fan. We have to also realize that aikido is only 1 piece of the combat and not the combat itself, it is the art of escaping and so when we practice our focus should be on what the attacker is doing and how they are getting out of the break with breakfall. Not on what the teacher is doing, that's not what that practice is for but this is where it will be tough for people. People train and want recognition for time spent their ego is craving it, when we study these things we must do so without ego because it is not us that are important only the art itself.
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09-03-2014, 05:43 AM
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#42
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Tim Doyon wrote:
When asking if a martial art is useful in battle
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Notwithstanding the etymology of "martial", "Martial Art", almost always infers self defense in a civilian setting. Self defense and battle are very, very different things.
Last edited by akiy : 09-03-2014 at 10:33 AM.
Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Greg Jennings
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09-03-2014, 06:48 AM
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#43
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Dojo: Niwa-no-Doro Auburn,Me
Location: Auburn,Me
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
could you explain to me a bit deeper how self-defense and battle are different , thanks
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09-03-2014, 07:49 AM
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#44
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
See your PM.
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Greg Jennings
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09-03-2014, 08:29 AM
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#45
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
Notwithstanding the etymology of "martial", "Martial Art", almost always infers self defense in a civilian setting. Self defense and battle are very, very different things.
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Well I would have to disagree - for instance I just can't see a kendoka or an iaido practioner running around the streets with the tools of their trade. Yet both are martial artists.
The battle or not battle depends on how you define battle.
Last edited by akiy : 09-03-2014 at 10:34 AM.
Reason: Fixed quote
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09-03-2014, 09:15 AM
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#46
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Peter, that's like Bill Clinton (in)famously defining oral sex to not be sex.
If we are not to use the well-defined meaning of terms, communication is going to grind to a halt.
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Greg Jennings
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09-03-2014, 09:37 AM
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#47
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
Peter, that's like Bill Clinton (in)famously defining oral sex to not be sex.
If we are not to use the well-defined meaning of terms, communication is going to grind to a halt.
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Are you saying, then, that the sword arts are not martial arts because they are not (in our modern world) generally applied in a civilian setting? Or are you drawing a distinction between the older, combat-oriented sword forms and those which evolved for civilian use?
In that case, I don't think it is Peter who is causing communication to grind to a halt.
Katherine
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09-03-2014, 09:52 AM
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#48
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
No, I'm drawing a line between "battle" and what we do as martial artists.
It's obvious that what we do in martial arts has their roots in war...thus *martial* arts.
But, what we do, what the most knock-down, drag-out MMA fight is, and "battle" are *worlds* different except in hyperbole.
That does not denigrate either endeavor. Just battle is battle and martial arts training or competition is just that. The two are related, but now only at a distance.
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Greg Jennings
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09-03-2014, 10:32 AM
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#49
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
Just to be clear...
War = Organized violence between states and non-state actors to achieve political ends.
Warefare = The collection of techniques used to carry out war.
Battle = A component of the hierarchy of combat (fighting) in war.
and, while I'm at it,
Warrior = One whose avocation is war.
Contrasted with:
Martial Art = A codified system or tradition of fighting practiced for self defense, competition, health or personal development.
...and while I'm at it, how many of those "martial" arts were not developed by or commonly practiced by warriors.
Martial Artist = One who practices a martial art.
I don't claim that those are "end all and be all" definitions. But, they'll serve to to ease communication...at least when I'm the party being communicated with.
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Greg Jennings
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09-03-2014, 11:02 AM
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#50
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Re: Aikido as an actual Martial Art
If anyone is interested, they might read John Keegan's "A History of Warfare" and "On Combat" by Dave Grossman. The former is about war. The latter about the combat.
"On Combat" would be an interesting read no matter what.
In a different vein, I highly suggest http://www.hoplology.com/ .
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Greg Jennings
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