Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-16-2003, 08:38 PM   #1
actoman
Dojo: USA Martial Arts Center
Location: West Virginia
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 88
United_States
Offline
Ai symbol Private Training

Hello all,

I am new to both this board and Aikido. I very much enjoy training and want to continue. However, my schedule with school and work, as well as limited classes on weekends, have forced me to take private, one-on-one training.

My question is, is this going to aid in my training, or hinder it?

Thanks
Andy
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2003, 10:29 PM   #2
Misogi-no-Gyo
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 498
Offline
Re: Private Training

Quote:
Andy Orwig (actoman) wrote:
Hello all,

I am new to both this board and Aikido. I very much enjoy training and want to continue. However, my schedule with school and work, as well as limited classes on weekends, have forced me to take private, one-on-one training.

My question is, is this going to aid in my training, or hinder it?

Thanks

Andy
I will be uninhibitedly honest with you. While private training is better than no training, I can say, without hesitation, that those who only take private lessons are always the worst students of the lot. Having trained with those who have spent 10 years, training three to five days a week as private students, just never amounted to anything outside of moderately passable. Sorry guys.

Now, I want to add a few caveats to my above statement.

A. it wasn't the training. I used to watch my teacher's privates, and they were classes from hell, on a hot day. I am talking blistering attacks and counters by my teacher - something I had never seen as his student. The pace never let up, either. So if you ask me, it has nothing to do with the subject matter, syllabis, nor the context from which the classes were taught.

B. Sempai-Kohai. People will strongly disagree. It matters little, as they would not be correct. If you are Kohai to all, and sempai to none, you will never learn. Kohai are your laboratory instruments - to the next level. They give you readings, but can actually give you verbal feedback, too, if you care (or know) enough to question and listen. Kohai are your playground - where no adults are watching and you can be yourself, or better yet, discover who you are when you are being yourself.

C. Mai - It is important to keep a distance between yourself and your teacher. That should be the protocol, but more importantly, it is in regards to having time away, so that when you return you can have a better feel for your level of improvement.

D. If you have a solid base in an art, or are an advanced practitioner of another art, private instruction, whether as an add-on to your regular training, or if you are not able to train regularly, then as a stand-alone method of instruction is certainly advisable.

E. Syllabus - there are simply many aspects of the art that require you to have a feel for the many different body types, mentalities, ways of attacking and grabbing, that you would experience with various student partners. Not to mention the impossibility of practicing anything having to do with techniques that are against multiple opponents such as ni-nin dori, randori, etc., that can't even be practiced when it is only you and your teacher. Also, aikido is not merely about techniques on the physical plain. Aikido is about making connections, blending, and unifying breath and movement, mind and body. Having multiple perspectives to learn from and interact with will foster progression, much like 6-8 classes a day through college encourages growth at a certain level and pace. This would be very contrary the progression if you merely took one subject a day, every day, but were expected to perform at, or even have the understanding of your dojo contemporaries.

It may also be relevant to consider that your teacher will always see, point out, or attack your openings at will. This is not a bad thing, but can simply be extremely difficult to deal with on an emotional level, as it seems as though you never improve.

I was teaching only privates out of my home for about four years. When it became apparent that my own students had reached the "private" plateau, I asked them one question - would you be happy if you never improved beyond the level you are at now, regardless of the amount of time and energy you invest in your training. Of course, you know the answer, because if you didn't, you wouldn't have posted your question. As it came to be so obvious that neither they, nor I would ever be satisfied with that, I moved forward and opened a public dojo to attract other students who could help us, each in our own personal way, reach our own goals, whatever they may be.

I must conclude from where I commenced - If it is all you have, then I say go for it with all you have. You can train in many of the principles of Aikido when reading, watching TV, or driving a car. If at some point another option comes up, sample it and see if that is the direction you feel most comfortable with. In the end, you must find yourself, become yourself, and train yourself, then begin to understand the path on which you had set out so many years before.

Last edited by Misogi-no-Gyo : 08-16-2003 at 10:36 PM.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2003, 01:10 AM   #3
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
Re: Re: Private Training

Quote:
Shaun Ravens (Misogi-no-Gyo) wrote:
While private training is better than no training, I can say, without hesitation, that those who only take private lessons are always the worst students of the lot. Having trained with those who have spent 10 years, training three to five days a week as private students, just never amounted to anything outside of moderately passable. Sorry guys.
I can agree with most of what you said Shaun, but not in this context. Your initial statement contradicts and nullifies your caveats. No need to apologize.

Andy, don't be misled: there is no "worst" student in aikido. You work with the tools available, and if you like it and agree with the teacher's philosophy, then stick with it. This doesn't make you a "bad" student or aikidoist.

Your training could be hindered in the long term with only one-on-one practice.

To second Shaun, practicing with different people holds tremendous benefit. Try this: do some private stuff for a little bit. Then, re-evaluate as Shaun suggests. Reprioritize your goals and see where aikido fits. We've all had to make sacrifices to continue our training, some more than others, and the hardest part is the sacrifice.

But if it's something you enjoy and want to continue, a change or two will be needed after a while. Keep this in mind, and take any change with a grain of salt; you may find out later it was worth it.

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2003, 01:37 AM   #4
Misogi-no-Gyo
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 498
Offline
Re: Re: Re: Private Training

Quote:
Phillip Johnson (PhilJ) wrote:
I can agree with most of what you said Shaun, but not in this context. Your initial statement contradicts and nullifies your caveats. No need to apologize.

Andy, don't be misled: there is no "worst" student in aikido. You work with the tools available, and if you like it and agree with the teacher's philosophy, then stick with it. This doesn't make you a "bad" student or aikidoist.

*Phil
Hi Phil,

Just to clarify, I was apologizing not for my comments in general, but specifically to my teacher's private students - some of whom are still training, and thus, I see from time to time at our group trainings in LA, and who might take my comments in the wrong context. To balance out my initial statement, I would like to add, "They (private students) may not have a clue how to tenkan, or Irimi, but some of them support my teacher and his movement with as much spirit and dedication as any ten students who train in the regular class - and that would include me, as, for the moment, I get to see my teacher only 4-6 times a year, as we are three thousand miles apart"

Oh, and when I say "worst" I mean it exactly how it sounds, in "Oh" so many ways, and on "oh" so many levels. I think it relevant, as I am not talking about those who are beginners, and don't know any better. I am talking those who have been around a long time, and ought to know much better.

The caveats were supposed to negate the initial statement; by the way, that is why I called them caveats, rather than supportive statements. Although, re-reading my post, some could be taken either way, or both ways, for that matter.

In Andy's case, I think it not too relevant to his current situation, but I threw it out there for his consideration as to where he might find himself five or ten years down the line - in the hole he could end up digging for himself. Of course, he could master the art and found another in the same time, at which point, we may all be studying with him - just as much a possibility as becoming the worst student, or his dojo's "consummate king of mediocrity."

After all, one can never know until one fails.... Right?

Last edited by Misogi-no-Gyo : 08-17-2003 at 01:39 AM.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2003, 03:16 AM   #5
Paul Klembeck
Location: silicon valley
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 43
Offline
Andy,

1. You say you are new to Aikido. At this stage you are learning structure, so in principle, private lessons are a great way to go. The caveats Shaun mentions only kick in later.

2. Much depends on your teacher. Some are great for this, others may not be.

3. School and work will not keep you from an occaisional general class interaction. Do public classes when you can: gives you a sense of different bodies, melds you into general aikido culture, easier on the pocketbook, make a few friends, fit in to the long term study that Aikido requires.

My own experience with "private" lessons was when I changed dojos at the level of a shodan candidate. My new dojo was a new and therefore small one and "private" meant I was the only one who showed up for class (a regular (sometimes twice a day) occurance back then, but it never happens now). As someone with some experience getting private time with, IMHO, brilliant teachers (one of whom is now a 7th Dan Shihan) this was a time of extreme growth in my aikido life.

So, take your privates, learn what you can, make sure your teacher is meeting your (not his) needs, find some time for general classes, and generally, just enjoy.

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2003, 12:19 AM   #6
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Just because this thread is too serious I'll offer this:
Quote:
I used to watch my teacher's privates,


Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2003, 03:33 AM   #7
ze'ev erlich
 
ze'ev erlich's Avatar
Dojo: Masatake Dojo - Israel Aikikai
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 167
Israel
Offline
Cool lol

Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
Just because this thread is too serious I'll offer this:





Bronson

Ze'ev from Masatake Dojo Rehovot
www.aikikai.org.il
Israeli Aikikai

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2003, 04:00 AM   #8
Adrian Smith
 
Adrian Smith's Avatar
Location: Yokosuka
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 55
Offline
Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
Just because this thread is too serious I'll offer this:





Bronson
<lol> I thought of that but decided I'd leave well enough alone.

-drin
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2003, 10:01 AM   #9
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
I thought of that but decided I'd leave well enough alone
Yes, I've often been told that the difference between myself and others is that I have the lack of tact to say what everyone else is thinking

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2003, 11:34 AM   #10
Misogi-no-Gyo
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 498
Offline
Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
Just because this thread is too serious I'll offer this:



:eek: :confused:

Bronson
OK, You got me. But I am sure you wouldn't laugh if you saw them ....would you?

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2003, 08:35 PM   #11
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
But I am sure you wouldn't laugh if you saw them ....would you?
I guess it would really depend on the situation and context. If he were on a 40ft ladder with an umbrella and a dancing circus bear....never mind

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2003, 08:47 PM   #12
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 247
Indonesia
Offline
Hi Andy,

if you don't have time to go for aikido class, then do a private training. However, I strongly suggest you go for regular aikido class. Private training might excel you in technique but attending regular aikido class might excel you in understanding your partner.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2003, 02:04 PM   #13
Pretoriano
 
Pretoriano's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Santa Fe
Location: Aragua Venezuela
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 130
Venezuela
Offline
Mr kauzar is right, trainning privately will make the practicioner soon to be able to give a "bicycle ride" to many of his dojo brothers

but what about the grasp of feeling different bodies? trainning in group is important too.

Praetorian
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2003, 03:58 AM   #14
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Private training is neither better or worse than in a group - it is just different. Most martial arts were taught privately or at the most with 3 or 4 people. Even Ueshiba focused his training on his Uchideschi. The reason behind this I believe is so that the 'master' could impart ALL of his knowledge to the 'student' with whom he trusted to use it wisely (therefore there were teaching certificates and not grades). Today martial arts is open to pretty mcuh everyone, recommendations aren't necessary, and people leave to start their own school without knowing half of what their instructors knows. I think this may be a cause of loss within the martial arts, though I probably would not have had the opportunity to train if the old system had been retained.

Private training allows the instructor to assess you better (your character), they can impart knowledge more quickly and you can potentially train a lot harder (I have found two people training together work harder than a group). However it is very useful to train with different people. Also, having private tuition may prevent you developing the ability for self-analysis.

I would say - carry on with private tuition and don't worry about it (as long as your instructor is good). BUT try and get along to courses, especially with other instructors. If you do this I could actually see you having much better progression.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2003, 11:32 AM   #15
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 588
United_States
Offline
Private training is great if you can afford it.

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2003, 12:06 PM   #16
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
United_States
Offline
I aggree with Shaun's post. That was a really good one. The original poster would do well to pay attention.

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Nage/Uke Dynamic - Guidelines senshincenter General 47 02-20-2006 05:20 PM
Does Budo require a sense of shame? senshincenter General 72 09-12-2005 02:06 PM
Training with kids Amassus Training 5 02-12-2004 06:03 PM
*Really* Tough Training… jxa127 Training 29 05-09-2001 07:49 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate