Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > AikiWeb System

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-28-2006, 12:30 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,320
Offline
Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

AikiWeb Poll for the week of May 28, 2006:

Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Katatedori
  • Kosadori
  • Ryotedori
  • Morotedori
  • Shomenuchi
  • Yokomenuchi
  • Munetsuki
Here are the current results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 11:06 AM   #2
ruthmc
Dojo: Wokingham Aikido
Location: Reading, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 393
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Yokomenuchi - 'cos it's the most variable attack. Seems sometimes like everybody's been taught to do it in a different way..

Ruth
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 01:09 PM   #3
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Thumbs down Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Quote:
Ruth McWilliam wrote:
Seems sometimes like everybody's been taught to do it in a different way.
Seems that way 'cause they have, I think.

I've personally learned no less than three different variations and the teachers who taught them to me each opined strongly that their's was The One True Way of Yokomenuchi.

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit. Okay, I'm exaggerating a lot. At least about "The One True Way" stuff.

Still, if I've learned three different variations, well, I probably represent a tiny, tiny microcosm. How many are there?

(Carl Sagan in the background intoning:
"There are billions and billions of yokomenuchi variations, each one unique and special.")

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 03:55 PM   #4
Tim Olds
Location: Georgia
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

In a Randori situation, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between a shomenuchi and a yokomenuchi... until it's ALMOST too late!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 04:06 PM   #5
Lucy Smith
Dojo: Samurai Dojo
Location: Montevideo
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 138
Uruguay
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Quote:
(Carl Sagan in the background intoning:
"There are billions and billions of yokomenuchi variations, each one unique and special.")
LOL.
Well I think it's positive to learn how to deal with different attacks, since the bad guy in the street is not going to perform a perfect yokomenuchi. It has never been a difficult technique for me. I would have voted Ushiro ryokata dori (both shoulders grab from the back), because that's definitely the most "difficult to handle" attack for me, since most of my training partners are shorter than me so it's hard for me to get out of the grab without messing up my hair. And if something drives me crazy is to mess up my hair. No, really, it does.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 04:25 PM   #6
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Quote:
Lucy Smith wrote:
Ushiro ryokata dori (both shoulders grab from the back
This lends credence to a theory I have on the subject:

The hardest one is the one we practice least. Which, in my case, happens to be yokomen uchi. Grab my shoulders - front or back - and I'll smile as I drop ya!

Yokomen uchi, OTOH, I have to think about. Thinking is bad when being attacked.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2006, 06:42 PM   #7
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

When my sensei would teach katate and kosa, he would occasionally instruct nage to gradually pull back as uke attacks, therefore beginning the technique with uke somewhat off his center. It was quite difficult for me as nage to decide just how quickly and just how much to pull back...too much or too quickly and a real attacker might change his mind on the attack. Not enough, and you don't get that extra advantage of taking a piece of his center. Therefore, when I first saw kosa and katate on the poll, I thought, "nope, those are the simplest ones." Then I remembered the subtlety involved in reacting to those attacks in a dynamic, non-static manner.

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 07:05 AM   #8
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

A shomenuchi attack got my vote, because I automatically flashbacked to getting hit the first time in a situation where I never saw the attack coming. A second time I got smacked with a shinai and never saw that coming either. Both times were good lessons. Someone can hit you with a shomenuchi even if they have their hands in their pockets to begin with.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 07:31 AM   #9
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 692
Israel
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Generally, it is not the attack rather some attackers, that can make my life difficult. We have a very gifted student in the dojo, in addition to his being Shodan in Korindo Aikido, he is also sandan in Karate, and when he attacks, he tracks so long as he can, which requires very exact timing or the punch will hit.

If one insists on attacks, I would go with kicks, and mostly, low short kicks to the knee. Some use these attacks as their main atemi in Randori and I find it very difficult to turn those attacks into a vulnerability. I find all kicks are harder to track to to insufficient practice (when I had the time, I practiced TKD in addition partially to get used to reading these attacks).

And if one must discuss hand techniques, I find the jab or front hand punch (the Japanese name just skipped my mind) as the most difficult. Again, the problem is mostly time and commitment, this attack would normally be set from short distance and without much commitment.

Amir
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 05:33 PM   #10
billybob
 
billybob's Avatar
Dojo: Academy of Warrior Spirit
Location: tampa
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 440
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Amir,

That sounds like really difficult randori training - people kicking low to the knee. Do they take time to plant themselves solidly before they kick? Maybe there is an indicator of their intension.

I voted Shomenuchi. Until I find soft springy power again in my body, I'll keep banging arms and getting hit on the head and shoulder.

dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2006, 09:30 PM   #11
seank
Location: Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
Australia
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Kicks to the knee are very easy to counter if you have an effective hanmi (and not the type very typically seen demonstrated in Aikido); I've most often used nekoashi dachi (collectively called a "Cat stance").

This type of stance allows you to take kicks to the lower legs and still maintain your posture and stance. The only down side is it is very hard to move quickly forwards or backwards in this stance because the majority of your weight is on your rear leg.

On reading the kick though, you always have the option of driving your knee into uke's shins...

Quote:
Do they take time to plant themselves solidly before they kick?
For someone who is experienced, probably not; Hiza geri and Ashi Barai generally don't have much of a lead in. Knees are very prone to excessive lateral movement and don't take a lot to overextend, so the kick/sweep does not have to contain huge amounts of power.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 05:48 AM   #12
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 692
Israel
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

David
Quote:
That sounds like really difficult randori training - people kicking low to the knee.
The randori is normally done at low intensity, but everything is allowed provided both sides will e able to take it without injury. One may kick anyway he wishes if he can control the force of the kick and knows how to fall in the middle of the kick if a technique would be applied on him. Kicks are not frequent mostly due to the latter element (the fall is not nice). Some of people have found light low kicks are a wonderful atemi, they are right, since it is very difficult to feel it in time for a counter.


David

Quote:
Kicks to the knee are very easy to counter if you have an effective hanmi (and not the type very typically seen demonstrated in Aikido); I've most often used nekoashi dachi (collectively called a "Cat stance").

This type of stance allows you to take kicks to the lower legs and still maintain your posture and stance. The only down side is it is very hard to move quickly forwards or backwards in this stance because the majority of your weight is on your rear leg.
Getting into a stance where you can hardly move is not a good solution. Further, the situation I wrote about is one where I am attacking, the other uses a light low kick to the knee area as an atemi prior to applying his technique. I am moving, I am not in a fixed stance (thanks for the complements to the Aikido stance, at least in Korindo Aikido they are great for their purpose - free movement). The difficulty is to sense the low kick while advancing in order of countering it (move aside).

As I wrote, the main difficulty is not kicks, but rather an experienced high level attacker who can track you if you miss the exact timing. We have just acquired several more of these people, as another couple of YonDasha Karate students have joined us as "newbies".

Amir
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 12:52 PM   #13
billybob
 
billybob's Avatar
Dojo: Academy of Warrior Spirit
Location: tampa
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 440
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Amir,

You've probably already thought of this, but I'll suggest anyway:

Crowd the kickers. Move in against the planted foot and push
them over the outside heel. just a thought

dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 01:36 PM   #14
Lan Powers
Dojo: Aikido of Midland, Midland TX
Location: Midland Tx
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 660
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

The absolute worst attack for me is ....anything from mount Cervantes!
No, really, Mike has a great center, and will give a committed attack with honest intention.
The down side of this is he is strong, centered, bigger, and has a real penchant for catching me with ryo-katatori (two hand lapel) grabs and "planting his center.
Gotta move before he plants....I know this, but it is one of the most difficult things to do when Mike is comin'-on-down to latch on...
Really makes you get your timing better. (or look foolish, either one)
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 02:18 PM   #15
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

KATA DORI

So easy for UKE to take initiative and keep you off balance.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2006, 06:11 PM   #16
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

At local seminars we get a mix of people who attack shomenuchi with the rear hand/forward hand, ai hanmi/gyaku hanmi--you never know *what* your partner is going to do. I know that one should read the attack rather than try to predict it, but...I'm not there yet.

For some reason my dojo does not teach a good response to kata tori with the "wrong" hand, and when beginners do this to me I generally look very stupid. I'm sure there's a sankyo or nikyo there, but I can't find it on the fly yet.

I love ushiro attacks, any kind, especially from motion. Don't know why, as they ought to be particularly hard.

Mary Kaye
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2006, 08:33 AM   #17
billybob
 
billybob's Avatar
Dojo: Academy of Warrior Spirit
Location: tampa
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 440
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Mary K,

next time you get grabbed wrong hand, close your eyes and see what happens!

(within reason)

dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2006, 12:32 PM   #18
billybob
 
billybob's Avatar
Dojo: Academy of Warrior Spirit
Location: tampa
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 440
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Hi,

just realized i was offering advice unbidden..........oops.

dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2006, 05:58 PM   #19
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

No problem, all advice cheerfully considered (not necessarily taken).

I have only done extensive work blindfold once; it was trippy! I ended up with one partner holding my wrists from behind, and despite my fondness for ushiro I *could not* throw him. Nothing seemed to work. Finally in frustration I put my head down--and head-butted him in the stomach, because he was in front of me, not behind me at all.

Clearly lots of room to learn new stuff here!

Mary Kaye
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2006, 06:09 PM   #20
chris w
 
chris w's Avatar
Location: michigan
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 38
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

what is kosadori?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2006, 01:37 AM   #21
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 601
Sweden
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

kosadori = ai hanmi katate dori.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2006, 03:15 AM   #22
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Kosa-dori is basically a cross hand grab, for example, uke uses his right hand to grab nage's right hand.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2006, 04:48 AM   #23
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Munetsuki = chudan tsuki?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2006, 06:33 AM   #24
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Munetsuki could well equal chudan tsuki as it covers the stomach and chest area.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2006, 10:13 AM   #25
jonreading
 
jonreading's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido South
Location: Johnson City, TN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,209
United_States
Offline
Re: Poll: Which of the following attacks is the most difficult for you to handle during aikido training?

Yokomenuchi is often difficult to anticipate because of the plethora of striking angles and striking spots; it travels across two planes (horizontal and vertical), so it makes for complicated intercepting as well. I find many students spend time trying to "catch" the strike and they simply do not have the motor skills to do that against a good attack...
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Instructor got mad because I didnt fall actoman Training 192 05-02-2012 02:55 AM
Aliveness in Martial Arts Video Clip Richard Langridge Open Discussions 60 08-10-2006 09:28 PM
Aikido and Target Focus Training Kristian Miller-Karlsen Techniques 81 03-16-2006 03:38 PM
The Nage/Uke Dynamic - Guidelines senshincenter General 47 02-20-2006 05:20 PM
Two things. Veers General 8 04-04-2003 01:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:03 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate