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Old 09-17-2009, 05:04 AM   #51
eyrie
 
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Re: "Indians"

How did a thread about too many managers and not enough workers, de-evolve to a discussion about genetic diversity, or lack thereof?

But I suppose it's apt.... considering that a new thread should have been started way back when... but apparent lack of thought diversity seems to have stymied thread evolution.

BTW, there's a compelling argument why genetic diversity is essential to the survival of a species.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...10/2681558.htm

I think the moral of the story is... "don't piss in the gene pool"...

Ignatius
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:38 AM   #52
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Re: "Indians"

Ignatius, your obviously not evolved enough to follow such a sosphisticated conversation, so I will forgive you for not understanding.

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Old 09-17-2009, 08:17 AM   #53
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Re: "Indians"

Hey, folks? I know some of you are just trying to have a little fun and lighten up a topic that can get heavy...and I know that Drew's original post may have taken some aback. But I really don't like the mocking and ridiculing of his concern. I really don't like it when people bray, "Aw you're just being PEE CEE!!!" when anyone says that certain words or phrases are offensive, or even just suggests that we examine that possibility. It's dismissive and it's unfair. It smacks of a desire to shoot the messenger rather than hear an uncomfortable message. Can't we do better than that?
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:54 AM   #54
Ron Tisdale
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Re: "Indians"

I think we can do better than that if we don't start the conversation off by calling someone racist.

Best,
Ron (no offence meant to anyone of any particular shade, creed, or religeon)

Ron Tisdale
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:17 AM   #55
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Hey, folks? I know some of you are just trying to have a little fun and lighten up a topic that can get heavy...and I know that Drew's original post may have taken some aback. But I really don't like the mocking and ridiculing of his concern. I really don't like it when people bray, "Aw you're just being PEE CEE!!!" when anyone says that certain words or phrases are offensive, or even just suggests that we examine that possibility. It's dismissive and it's unfair. It smacks of a desire to shoot the messenger rather than hear an uncomfortable message. Can't we do better than that?
Well, as Michael Hacker eloquently responded in post #2 of this thread, Drew's initial post was wrong. Not only was it wrong, but Drew's actions by his post, he did exactly that which he condemned.

So, I have to ask, just where in Drew's insulting (and could be considered racist) post do you find we shouldn't be dismissive? Or, do you think Drew should be given a pass because his "message" is important? In other words, it's okay to be insensitive, racist, or insulting as long as we're trying to get people to quit being insensitive, racist, or insulting?
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:02 AM   #56
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Well, as Michael Hacker eloquently responded in post #2 of this thread, Drew's initial post was wrong. Not only was it wrong, but Drew's actions by his post, he did exactly that which he condemned.
I'm not saying this applies to Drew's actions, but your reasoning is fallacious. If someone uses the n-word, and someone else says, "That's racist!", they're not equally blameworthy. Sorry, but they're just not. False arguments for "civility" are now commonly being used to stifle legitimate objections to racist remarks, on the grounds that the objections themselves are "uncivil" and therefore just as offensive as the original remarks. That's disingenuous "logic" employed to stifle legitimate objections.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
So, I have to ask, just where in Drew's insulting (and could be considered racist) post do you find we shouldn't be dismissive?
I think you need to read the responses to see what I'm getting at. It has nothing to do with Drew's comment per se. Read them with an open mind and see if you can't see what I'm talking about.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:14 AM   #57
Ron Tisdale
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Re: "Indians"

I hear what you are saying Mary, but...

Quote:
when anyone says that certain words or phrases are offensive, or even just suggests that we examine that possibility.
Drew (and it doesn't matter that it was Drew, *I* might have said it, and what I am saying would still follow) used the word "racist" in how he responded to the original post. Now, the original post might have been an oversight, maybe the poster was unaware that it might be offensive, maybe the poster simply doesn't find that hackneyed phrase offensive, who knows?

If Drew had phrased this the way you did, I think he'd have started a much different discussion. Since he phrased it the way he did, this is what he got. I'm pretty sure I can't fault the way others responded to it. BUT, I'd be more than willing to read a new thread where you talk about the subject you introduced. I don't know if I'd have much to contribute, but I'd like to read it. My thoughts in this area are always in something of a state of flux.

Best,
Ron (kind of like my stomache these days...I know...TMI )

Ron Tisdale
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:03 AM   #58
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I'm not saying this applies to Drew's actions, but your reasoning is fallacious. If someone uses the n-word, and someone else says, "That's racist!", they're not equally blameworthy. Sorry, but they're just not. False arguments for "civility" are now commonly being used to stifle legitimate objections to racist remarks, on the grounds that the objections themselves are "uncivil" and therefore just as offensive as the original remarks. That's disingenuous "logic" employed to stifle legitimate objections.
But that isn't what happened. At all. While Drew certainly used the word, racist, itself -- that isn't the critical point. The critical point is that Drew, himself, used an insulting (and could be construed racist) term in his argument.

In your example, it would be like this ... (Please excuse the following as it is an example only. No disrespect intended.)

Example Start.
Someone uses the N word. Someone else posts, "Your slang is disrespectful to Khaffers, therefore racist, therefore offensive to the Grand Dream of O'Sensei, therefore offensive to me.
Example End.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I think you need to read the responses to see what I'm getting at. It has nothing to do with Drew's comment per se. Read them with an open mind and see if you can't see what I'm talking about.
I agree with Ron. Had someone posted a genuine concern, things would have turned out much differently. If you'd like to start a thread concerning this issue, I'm sure people would post appropriately.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:31 AM   #59
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Re: You're sensei, I'm sensei, Everyone's sensei

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
My eighth grade basketball coach said that to us once, only he said, "Indians." Your slang is disrespectful to the American Indian, therefore racist, therefore offensive to the Grand Dream of O'Sensei, therefore offensive to me.

I don't know whether your phrase contains hatred, ignorance, or both, but I highly recommend not using derogatory ethnic words unless spoken through a character in a fictional work.

Drew
My view is that intent is the real measure of racism. Certainly I would agree there exists institutionalized racism/bigotry, and i dislike its use, but because i have found myself using such terms without even realizing it (like getting "gyped" at the movies for a 10.00 coke), I don't get offended at their use as much these days...and I would like to stress my very intense hatred for bigotry. In my personal cosmology of what's wrong with the world, after ignorance comes bigotry. I can tell by your post you feel very similarly and I applaud you for that. It's very easy for folks to dismiss things that haven't affected their lives negatively, and having some familiarity with Native Americans I can appreciate where you're coming from in this case, but I don't think any hatred was apparent in John's post and while you could make an argument of ignorance based on what you might call a lack of appreciation for certain Native Americans, I don't think it's as offensive as you seem to...but as a guy who grew up in a trailer park, I'm very familiar with the very common "trailer trash" phrase so maybe I'm also somewhat desensitized.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:17 PM   #60
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
But that isn't what happened. At all. While Drew certainly used the word, racist, itself -- that isn't the critical point. The critical point is that Drew, himself, used an insulting (and could be construed racist) term in his argument.
One more time. I am not talking about what Drew said. I'm talking about where it went from there.

Do you need specific cites to understand what I'm talking about?
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:29 PM   #61
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Re: You're sensei, I'm sensei, Everyone's sensei

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
My eighth grade basketball coach said that to us once, only he said, "Indians." Your slang is disrespectful to the American Indian, therefore racist, therefore offensive to the Grand Dream of O'Sensei, therefore offensive to me.

I don't know whether your phrase contains hatred, ignorance, or both, but I highly recommend not using derogatory ethnic words unless spoken through a character in a fictional work.

Drew
Wow...you have access to O'sensei thoughts? You need to stop being so sensitive. In your attempt to be PC you didn't even use the PC term for Indians...Native American. Good Job.
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:32 PM   #62
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Re: "Indians"

Yeah, actually I could use some specifics as I thought it was a fairly constructive conversation going on where a bunch of folks were having a intelligent conversation about the issue and it was essentially raising the awareness bar on the subject without calling anyone a racist, bigot, or anything else.

So yeah, I am really failing to understand your point. Maybe if around post #2 or #3 this might have been an appropriate response, but this conversation has been going on for a few days now and your "shot" is the equivilant of a fight being over and then coming in late and getting your lick in for good measure.

I don't think anyone here is making light of the situation at all.

this is a complex subject as are most things in life and can't be boiled down to a "black or white" issue. (no pun intended...okay...maybe a little).

I think in the spirit of expanding horizons, seeking to understand, and compassion, harmony, and peace...there is alot of value being added in this conversation...which is what we are supposed to do in our philosophical practice of aikido.

In ain't about "getting off the line" or "avoidance", but about confronting the issue, exploring it for all it is worth and critically examining.

FWIW, alot of people and myself included go around using words and phrases simply because they always have. "Gyped" is actually a good one. I put no emotional issue to the phrase since I did not grow up in a Gypsy culture, it meant nothing to me, it was simply a phrase that people used, so the etiology of the word was lost on me for a long while.

However, once learning the background of it, learning about Gypsy culture etc, I understand now, and I am not so inclined to use it and will choose other words.

That does not make me a racist however, simply ignorant...which is something we all are in someways and need to expand out of.

so yea...I need to understand where you are coming from cause I don't see it (Ignorance on my part).

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Old 09-17-2009, 01:18 PM   #63
Keith Larman
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Re: "Indians"

I think there are valid issues to be discussed. I'm still curious whether "injins" is a derogatory term or if it is more about Hollywood's attempt to give westerns a "twang". So leaving that side, is "Indian" a bad word to use for "native Americans"? That strikes me as odd considering the vast number of so-called self-described "Indian Gaming" locations here in my state of California. You can't go 20 miles without running into one. Or seeing commercials for them. Given the widespread use of the word "indian" by local tribes I'm not exactly sure if the word has simply become an innocuous and perfectly acceptable word that has lost the tarnish of its original improper origins through common usage.

But again this is getting away from Mary's point as I understand it. Sure, there is an issue here to discuss (and I thought we had actually discussed that issue somewhat). I'm still puzzled about Injins.

But the other side of that coin is that Drew's post itself leveled a charge of racism in what I think most felt was simply, well, really tortured logic at best. Yes, it is a good idea to look at our usage of words and remember the etiology of some of them. But over time it can go to far and I think Drew's did go way over the line too far. So the discussion is going to be focused and directed by that aspect of the original post.

Hey, I'm all for looking more deeply into these things -- I've always found it fascinating. Look up "Pot calling the kettle black." I did one day after a friend of mine got in a huff over another friend using that expression. There's a great example of finding insult that was most likely never there to begin with. Another has to do with "freezing the balls off a brass monkey". And that one has generating an amazing amount of debate as to what it *really* means. Some versions are really interesting.

But when we take a step back -- the question to me comes down to two things. One is whether the words used are themselves derogatory in meaning. I don't find that aspect of the original expression to be all that clearly determined. The second is whether the person using the phrase was using it as a derogatory expression -- that one was clearly no.

So... We end up back at the beginning. And I still wonder how on earth did one person manage to find such offense to what I personal thought of as a rather innocuous expression? So yes, in light of that, the original post ends up feeling very Politically Correct in an "over the top" way. I am genuinely curious about the word "indians" still being a negative thing as it appears to be in widespread use even by our local tribes here. Next is whether "injins/injuns/whatever" is itself derogatory. I had never seen it that way but I'm willing to admit it wasn't something I'd really thought about before. I have offered up where I had assumed it had come from, and I'd be very happy to not use it myself if it turns out to be a derogatory term. But again... Isn't that why we're having this conversation?

And still... In the end I have to agree with Hogan's post. Given how fascinating I find the topic, i sure wish we could have had this conversation without the original silliness of the first post.

Posted with respect.

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Old 09-17-2009, 01:35 PM   #64
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I thought I was doing good when we adopted our daughter from China. Then when you talk to chinese people, they ask from what province and then that gets into a whole discussion about her ethnicity. You see there are 54 some odd distinct ethnic groups of chinese!
I had an ethnology professor, a Dr. Blake, who did his field work with the Hakka people of the Hong Kong/Canton area. A primarily identifier for them ethnically is their distinct language, in which Dr. Blake, a tall, blue-eyed, "European" looking guy you might expect to have a name like "Blake," became pretty fluent during his time in the Hong Kong area.

He told a story about a time he spoke Hakka at a restaurant in Honolulu, the owners looked at him with amazement. They asked him hesitantly if he were Hakka, and he pointed out, "I'm speaking Hakka." They then asked, "Were your parents Hakka?"

As to the OP, many native people I've met in the 25 years I've lived in NM strongly identify with being "American," as double-edged (yes, that word does apply here) a self-identification as that necessarily seems to be, as well as being members of their own nation. (E.g., the Dine Code Talkers.)

Some people I've met seem strongly rooted in their own nation's culture and society; some alienated from that; some have become doctors or lawyers or business people who navigate wider social settings and are still connected to their pueblo or tribe.

I remember talking to a couple of kids who'd been adopted by Anglos when I was substitute teaching in West Texas around 1982. I was asking the boy how he felt about what I had perceived as insensitivity by other kids, and his sister interrupted bitterly saying, "Don't ask us, we're just dumb Indians."

I realized then the last thing she wanted to be reminded of was being different, perhaps especially by some white kid.

I don't believe you can really make generalizations about how the people I've met would react to the phrase "Native American." Not to "welsh" on taking a position, but it doesn't seem that simple.

YMMV

cdh

Last edited by C. David Henderson : 09-17-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:38 PM   #65
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Re: "Indians"

You all make valid points about the "gypped" word. In fact, for the longest time, I never saw the word spelled.... only heard. I have grown up with people saying it without any ill will. It was just a word to use besides scammed or ripped off. It wasn't until I finally saw the spelling of the word that I finally understood the origins behind it.

I believe most things are more from ignorance then anything else. We have countless words in the language that we use and don't know the origns of (whether they were good or bad). HOWEVER, I am not saying that words aren't said with the sole intention of hurting someone.

If you think about it, it is actually kind of sad that we have been desensitized to things over time. There are things everywhere, like the trailer trash comment (I also grew up in a trailer until 9th grade), blonde jokes/comments, comments about state employees not working, "injians", "chincs", rednecks, etc.

You also have to consider, what was once considered "PC" or okay may not be considered okay today. I mean... back in the day, injians was considered okay, black (for lack of a better word) were considered negros. You don't hear people really saying that anymore. Why? Because it now has a negative connotation with it and african american is used. That is also a catch-all and that will fade away one day. Not everyone with dark skin actually has heritage from africa. Maybe they have dominican in them or are from barbados. White people aren't white and asian people aren't really olive colored......

The fact is our language has it's faults. If something is wrong, it is wrong, but you also have to consider the meaning behind the word and how it is used. I have an asian friend who calls himself a chinc on occasion. I have had black friends use the n word with each other. I have called myself a cracker at one point I am sure..... All of these situations were amongst friends and were used in a friendly and laid back manner. No malice at all. The problems usually arise when someone outside of that ethnicity/culture/whatever else uses the word. Or they use the word with the sole intent of using it in a demeaning way.

I think that ignorance will never be cured, no one will ever understand everyone and that the best we can do sometimes is agree to disagree.

Last edited by ninjaqutie : 09-17-2009 at 01:42 PM.

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Old 09-17-2009, 01:39 PM   #66
Mike Sigman
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
So leaving that side, is "Indian" a bad word to use for "native Americans"?
Whoa... just to confuse the issue (and kill a little time) let me challenge the term "native American". There is growing evidence that there were established people (probably came via boats on the Pacific) prior to the advent of the migration of proto-Asians across the Bering Strait. It appears those prior colonies were wiped out. But then again, various American Indian tribes also wiped each other out, cannibalized, and so on.

Then too, there is Kennewick Man:

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf109/sf109p02.htm

So "native" as meaning "indigenous" is not really accurate. They were obviously imperialist aggressors.

Mike
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:43 PM   #67
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
David Henderson wrote: View Post
I don't believe you can really make generalizations about how the people I've met would react to the phrase "Native American." Not to "welsh" on taking a position, but it doesn't seem that simple.
That was simply the Aikido of bad comparisons, David.

Mike
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:49 PM   #68
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Re: "Indians"

Ashley wrote:

Quote:
If you think about it, it is actually kind of sad that we have been desensitized to things over time. There are things everywhere, like the trailer trash comment (I also grew up in a trailer until 9th grade), blonde jokes/comments, comments about state employees not working, "injians", "chincs", rednecks, etc.
It is sad. My personal philosophy of growth is based on seeking to understand and expanding awareness. So, I am always looking for way to grow and learn. Which is why I like the folks here on Aikiweb as I find most of you guys in the same vein so this makes things interesting and constructive.

I think being PC is just as bad (or almost as bad) as being Ignorant. PC is essentially about avoidance. Lets ignore the problem and pretend that it doesn't exist, therefore we don't have to deal with it and kick the can down the road.

I deal with PC everyday, as most of you do.

I see PC being practiced in Aikido (or have) and when I see things such as "Aikido is about blending and avoiding conflict", I get upset....cause that is all PC language which essentially valdiates the whole PC process and says it is better to all be civilized and avoid the issue than to actually confront it and deal with it.

In any problem solving process, 12 step program, or what not, the first step is always "Identify the problem". 2. step is always some language of ownership or acceptance.

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Old 09-17-2009, 03:24 PM   #69
Walter Martindale
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Off topic, but oh well. I am not a big PETA fan. I suppose they have their place in the world, but I don't think that you win anyone over to the other side through militant and shock tactics.
PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals

Walter
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:39 PM   #70
dalen7
 
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Re: "Indians"

LOL.

Ok this should be fun, what offends Indians. - Nothing, call me what you want!.

My grandmother, on my mothers side is Indian. [Albeit it seems there is a potential tribal mix between her grandfather and mother if I remember correctly. Otherwise its pretty straight Cherokee.]

My grandfather on my dads side is norwegian.
So that grants me about a quarter of each, although my dad also has Indian in him from his grandmother on one side of the family, so that ups my ante on the Indian side... despite my blue eyes.

Point is, all of this is silly. [not researching heritage], but taking words so serious. Call me what you want, I could care less. Either your right or your not, doesnt really matter to me.

Reminds me of school kids on a bus when they used to say, "yo mamma is a ___"
Now while most people would start a fight based on this, when it was told me it didnt phase me. The issue was simple, was it true? Then what would I do about it? Was it a lie? Then nothing to do about it.

So often we get caught as adults in this political correct scenario, and I find it quite unfortunate that its even necessary to do so.
We feed so much power into words and symbols and that then feeds the collective unconscious monster.

Heck, what im saying here, does it make sense? Does it matter? lol.

Im not saying to blatantly go out and try to offend someone, but the world is truly so mixed now this is old. I could have "african american" blood in me for all I know. This whole label thing has never set right with me.

"Native American", "African American", "Norwegian American", "hungarian American?" - nah, the latter is just American?

These labels keep up the division.
And Ill go a step further.
"Im American", "Im Chinese", "Im Russian" - cool, it gives me a reference point as to what your collective pain body is like and how to deal with a less conscious person. [just picking but the point is there]

At the end of the day it makes me wonder how we will ever reach Michio Kakus level 1 civilization if we let such trivialities remain at the heart of what we deem important.

Hungary is an interesting example. Here they hate gypsies... they loathe them... I cant even express the dismay they have towards them. Imagine the typical image you have of a KKK member towards a 'black', and you may get a clue.

A couple, or more, of the guys that train where I do seem to be training because of their fear of the gypsies.

Whats happening, and Im saying this based on what I feel is happening after going to the gypsie village and chatting with them to get to know them a bit, is that its a clash of cultures.

... ultimate culture shock. The way of the gypsies and their thinking is so different that it poses a threat to the established way of how things are done here. [and Ill admit, some of their ways, like throwing junk in nature behind their houses... kitchen sinks, etc., is a bit too much. I think we should try to take care of what has been given to us. And seeing that the trash is thrown on the outside of the metal rubbish bins with no concern of throwing it in doesnt help their case with the locals either.]

Some concerns are indeed legit, but these concerns could be pointed to any given portion of a population.
There really isnt much to do at this point to resolve this as the way of life is that vastly different. [you would have to be here to get it, as the gypsies stateside are different than those here.]

Again, its not about a color, its about two ways of life and when those ways of life clash with each other. One is not necessarily wrong and the other right, but the fact is in such close proximity, unless everyone wakes up with Eckhart Tolle as their conscious, they are gonna have some issues.

You can take this scenario and apply it anywhere in the world.
Even when two cultures are similar you can be taken back at how much difference there really is, how much misunderstanding.

So on one level, getting the peoples names right is of the least concern... getting to the person, to understand where they are, allowing them the freedom to have self-expression, while you keep your own 'identity' intact, is something left for a higher level civilization as a whole.

The fact is, there are some people you may not want to be around, or limit your exposure to them. Does not mean that they are bad, etc. But everything has its time and place... this topic can be talked around in circles, so Ill jump out of the loop here.

Peace

dAlen

Last edited by dalen7 : 09-17-2009 at 03:51 PM.

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Old 09-17-2009, 03:44 PM   #71
Walter Martindale
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Re: "Indians"

On a more serious note - "Indian" and "Native American" and other tribes terms for "the people" (e.g., I believe that those most often called "Eskimo" by people in the south prefer to be called "Innu" or "Inuit".. )
The parts of Canada I've lived in have sometimes been under land claim between the "first nations" people, as they seem to call themselves, and the provincial or federal government. British Columbia was at one time 110% under overlapping claims by the local first nations communities...

I've never understood the "native" term - because I've understood "native" to mean "one born here" - I'm native to Canada even though my grandparents weren't, but I'm not "first nations".

Many people make statements that offend because they don't know the current "what's right" phraseology. for example, when I was very young, the "Negro" was considered a polite replacement for the other "N" word, and then it became "African American."

Where I live now, "Pakeha" refers to us white folks, and the tone with which it is expressed by some of those who were here before the Europeans showed up leaves no doubt that it's not a term of endearment.

Trouble is, if you jump up and down and take great offense, you get great long list of replies like this thread.

A reply in person - e.g., "Sorry mate but I find that offensive." doesn't automatically imply that the entire world is offended, just the speaker. Those who mean no offense don't need to be hauled up in front of the world and shouted at, they need to be reminded that some people take offense, and in case they were unaware of the problem, it's an education moment, rather than a rise up and dump on someone moment...

Perhaps there's a better way to express these thoughts, but I must get off to work..
W
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:49 PM   #72
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Hey, folks? I know some of you are just trying to have a little fun and lighten up a topic that can get heavy...and I know that Drew's original post may have taken some aback. But I really don't like the mocking and ridiculing of his concern. I really don't like it when people bray, "Aw you're just being PEE CEE!!!" when anyone says that certain words or phrases are offensive, or even just suggests that we examine that possibility. It's dismissive and it's unfair. It smacks of a desire to shoot the messenger rather than hear an uncomfortable message. Can't we do better than that?
No - people who are easily offended need to be mocked & ridiculed in order to toughen them up.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:18 PM   #73
dalen7
 
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Re: "Indians"

This really goes with my other post - but out of the time frame to update it.

Im adding this as a bit of cultural info, as most Americans dont have the privilege to live in another culture long enough to experience it. [And I mean immersed in it, away from all Western influences, etc.]

We took our older kids out of the Christian school this year and put them in the school across the street. [various issues, to long to get into here, suffice it to say it wasnt too Christian.]

Before taking them out the Director of the school said, "you do know gypsies go to that school." I could hear Jesus rolling over in his grave. [Wait, I forgot he rose from the dead.]

True, there are some gypsies there, and my daughter who is in the 4th grade has a gyspie kid who cant read and write. - I dont quite understand how a school can pass someone up that far without them learning basic skills, but I guess it happens even stateside.

People put their kids into the Christian school, [which does receive some gov. money, as well as recently the gov. gave them back the secondary school that used to be fully public - a bit of history and politics to much to go into now] but suffice it to say people put their kids in that school to keep them away from other kids.

Dont fool yourself, this happens stateside as well, just may be a little better white-washed. [appropriate term?]

I dont know, when you think about that this is the way people actually think, it begs the question to be asked, "how did I arrive on this planet?"

Well, suppose there is hope... but that hope is always with the kids - who learn their parents hatred. [I have a friend who appears to have picked up his fathers hatred, and it seems a bit more amplified than the hate his father showed.]

Kids are the future and they magnify what they see in us.
There is hope, as long as they learn the 'right' thing... and by right, I mean letting go of the hate.

Peace

dAlen

dAlen [day•lynn]
dum spiro spero - {While I have breathe - I have hope}

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Old 09-17-2009, 05:21 PM   #74
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
John Hogan wrote: View Post
No - people who are easily offended need to be mocked & ridiculed in order to toughen them up.
So, anyone who ever says that they find something offended is "easily offended" and should be "mocked &[sic] ridiculed". Got it.
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:37 PM   #75
Darryl Cowens
Join Date: Aug 2009
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New Zealand
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Re: "Indians"

Yeah Walter, I don't use the word pakeha on formal documents like the census etc. Not because the word, or any 'hidden meanings' of it offend me.. I just don't see why I should use the word to conform with political correctness. I'm a New Zealander. I'm not British... my great-great grandparents were that.

I don't go around calling myself white, caucasion or NZ European, so I'm not going to call myself a pakeha because I'm not of maori descent. At the end of the day I'm a New Zealander
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