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08-28-2008, 05:08 PM
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#1
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Dojo: AikiSpirit Dojo
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 196
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Jujinage
Hello. I searched the language forum and didn't find anything.
Looked in the aikiweb dictionary and found "The figure 10 throw".
I just started studying japanese, and I understand that "Ju" is "10" and is represented by a cross shape (which explains the signifigance of that aspect of the naming of the technique), and that "nage" is "throw", but what is "ji"?
I looked it up in a romaji to english translator and couldn't find anything.
Any info on what "ji" is, and how it relates to the name of this technique would be a big help. Thanks.
W.
p.s. - Is the "ji" in "romaji" the same "ji"? What does it mean???
Last edited by Will Prusner : 08-28-2008 at 05:10 PM.
Reason: added post script
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08-28-2008, 05:20 PM
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#2
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Dojo: Doshinokai Dojo
Location: San Pedro, CA
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5
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Re: Jujinage
"ji" means "character", so in this case, "juji" means "the character for 10"...
"romaji" means "roman characters"...
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- Mike
Randori - Wait, then move.
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08-28-2008, 05:56 PM
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#3
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Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 394
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Re: Jujinage
"juji" said together also means: cross, crucifix. Here is the entire kanji for the technique 十字投げ. I too am doing research on the techniques and Japanese in general. Been struggling with the language for years now.
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08-28-2008, 07:49 PM
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#4
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Dojo: AikiSpirit Dojo
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 196
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Re: Jujinage
thanks! One more thing, If "Jū" is "10", how does it relate to words like judo and jujutsu? How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?
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08-28-2008, 08:01 PM
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#5
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Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
William Prusner wrote:
thanks! One more thing, If "Jū" is "10", how does it relate to words like judo and jujutsu? How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?
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The kanji for ju in judo is different from the ju in juji. Same sound, different meaning.
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08-28-2008, 08:29 PM
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#6
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
William Prusner wrote:
How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?
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Who ever said the number ten isn't a concept?
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Gambarimashyo!
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08-28-2008, 08:41 PM
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#7
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Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
William Prusner wrote:
thanks! One more thing, If "Jū" is "10", how does it relate to words like judo and jujutsu? How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?
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From Mike Braxton's post:
Quote:
"juji" said together also means: cross, crucifix. Here is the entire kanji for the technique 十字
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The "ju" in judo/jujitsu is 柔. It's not the same character.
juji-nage is so named for the juxtaposition of the uke's arms - i.e. like a cross. It is the same concept of jujigatame in judo/jujitsu.
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Ignatius
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08-29-2008, 04:07 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
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Re: Jujinage
There are so many instances of "Same sound, different character (kanji)" that can trip up someone with little or no knowledge of Nihongo.
The "ko" in "Kobudo" is not the same "ko" in "Kodokan"
"Ai" (love) is not the same "Ai" in "Aiki".
"Hana" can mean flower.. or "nose"!
One of my memorable experiences in Tokyo was remarking to a Japanese University faculty member that I was interested in "Budo".. and he responded "Oh, you like grapes!"
"budo", written with different characters, also means "grapes".
My favorite pun comes from the Sakura Taisen game / anime series. The protagonists belong to the "Teikoku Kagekidan", which translates as "Imperial Assault Force".. but when written with different characters, also means "Imperial Opera Troupe", which is their cover story..
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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08-29-2008, 11:17 AM
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#9
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Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote:
There are so many instances of "Same sound, different character (kanji)" that can trip up someone with little or no knowledge of Nihongo.
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Especially when homonyms are used consistently by Japanese to accomplish (mystical) union (sic). All the time. "AI" in aikido and love, as above, e.g. Also, as per http://www.furyu.com/onlinearticles/Iizasa.html :
"Iizasa is noted for saying "heiho wa heiho nari." It is a play on words. The first heiho can also be read hyoho; it means the military methods. The second heiho is written with the characters for peaceful methods. Thus, Iizasa was saying that the warrior arts should be arts for peace. This refers to a long-held belief among many martial arts masters, or bugeisha, that the highest level of expertise was in being able to win without fighting (arawazu ni katsu). "
Given this propensity for straight-faced punning, I wonder if "JI" has any resonance with HIJI, elbow, for Japanese as JUJI NAGE leverages the elbow. I would bet that "JU", 10/cross has such resonance with JUDO's "JU"...
Fun stuff. Thanks for the question.
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08-29-2008, 12:47 PM
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#10
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Dojo: AikiSpirit Dojo
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 196
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Re: Jujinage
Oh man! Thanks everybody so much! The plays on words is definitely more advanced than I am currently studying, but, no time like the present to try to start grasping some of the subtleties of the language. Thanks again!
W.
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08-29-2008, 03:38 PM
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#11
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
William Prusner wrote:
Oh man! Thanks everybody so much! The plays on words is definitely more advanced than I am currently studying, but, no time like the present to try to start grasping some of the subtleties of the language. Thanks again!
W.
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When you have only 5 vowel sounds and what, 15 (?) consonant sounds, you tend to repeat the same phenomes a ton...it's phenominal (puns are the highest form of comedy ). Personally I love that aspect of Japanese. Give me a double or triple meaning any day! Matthews are like onions: we appreciate layers.
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Gambarimashyo!
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08-30-2008, 01:46 AM
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#12
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Location: Edmonton, AB
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 802
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote:
(snip) Matthews are like onions: we appreciate layers.
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You appreciate chickens that produce eggs?
W
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08-31-2008, 02:24 PM
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#13
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Dojo: Kenshinkai Dojos
Location: Tokorozawa
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 102
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Re: Jujinage
As an afterthought... some dojo call this technique tenbinnage/天秤投げ - "tenbin" referring to a balance scale.
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09-01-2008, 02:15 AM
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#14
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Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
Andrew Smallacombe wrote:
As an afterthought... some dojo call this technique tenbinnage/天秤投げ - "tenbin" referring to a balance scale.
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Actually we call Tenbinnage to what's usually called Udekimenage in Aikikai's dojos. Jujinage's also called Karaminage.
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09-01-2008, 08:20 AM
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#15
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Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
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Re: Jujinage
"Karami", for those that don't know, refers to "twining around, entangling".
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Josh Reyer
The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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09-01-2008, 08:57 AM
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#16
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Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
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Re: Jujinage
This same word - different meaning is found in English too. Consider the word 'bowl'. It could mean something you fill with soup or the game of launching a heavy ball toward pins.
Drew
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09-01-2008, 02:25 PM
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#17
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Dojo: Kenshinkai Dojos
Location: Tokorozawa
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 102
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Re: Jujinage
Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote:
"Karami", for those that don't know, refers to "twining around, entangling".
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As in the technique "jujigarami", so named because the arms are "tangled" into a cross shape.
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