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Old 06-11-2017, 12:19 AM   #26
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

If you haven't got their balance ... you have no chance of getting ikkyo. If you truly have their balance ... they have no way to counter.

100% of ikkyo problems are a lack of taking balance, or, uke regaining balance (due to tori error or uke craft) shortly after.

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Old 06-11-2017, 05:38 AM   #27
PeterR
 
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Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
If you haven't got their balance ... you have no chance of getting ikkyo. If you truly have their balance ... they have no way to counter.

100% of ikkyo problems are a lack of taking balance, or, uke regaining balance (due to tori error or uke craft) shortly after.
Which begs the question when is ikkyo ikkyo? For me the final pin has nothing to do with the technique. Oshitaoshi (Shodokan parlance) is all about catching and taking balance. Done with proper timing under the correct circumstance it is brutally effective and very very difficult to resist.

Done as a kneeling technique is the only time I practice the straight down and bury version. Here there really is no place for uke to escape to.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:35 PM   #28
tarik
 
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Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

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Stefan Hultberg wrote: View Post
There are many ways to "escape" ikkyo -- and many ways to stop the escape. There is one particular way to escape ikkyo, though, that I find troubling. Certainly some atemi, good old hair grabbing, a pencil in the nostril could solve the problem, but I'm looking for an elegant, aikido-like solution to my problem.

...snip...

Does anybody have a suggestion on how to optimally stop uke from rolling out of "my" basic ikkyo?
Please let me know if it sounds like I've confused left/right or something else somewhere, damn it's not easy to describe techniques in text !!
Tough talking about things this technical online without hands on, but here's my take.

At your first touch, you should be taking uke and destroying their ability to remain standing without being dependent upon your connection. If you've acheived this, speed or timing is no longer a solution you need to utilize.

I'm often amazed at how much people push upwards on their uke in the process of making techniques, and ikkyo is one of the places where I've seen that the most. Pushing upward invariably means that you're standing uke up rather than the inverse, and uke has many more choices to escape.

FWIW, there are always 'escapes' built into any set of body relationships during technique. It's the nature of these things.

Tarik

Tarik Ghbeish
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MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:04 AM   #29
asiawide
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Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Quote:
Tarik Ghbeish wrote: View Post
Tough talking about things this technical online without hands on, but here's my take.

At your first touch, you should be taking uke and destroying their ability to remain standing without being dependent upon your connection. If you've acheived this, speed or timing is no longer a solution you need to utilize.

I'm often amazed at how much people push upwards on their uke in the process of making techniques, and ikkyo is one of the places where I've seen that the most. Pushing upward invariably means that you're standing uke up rather than the inverse, and uke has many more choices to escape.

FWIW, there are always 'escapes' built into any set of body relationships during technique. It's the nature of these things.

Tarik
I think I know what you talk about and it feels like folding uke as if compressing an empty coke can. So all -kyo wazas feel like nikyo. Btw, there are still room for escaping if uke keeps(or at least tries to keep) his own balance. Nage becomes very prone to counter when he folds uke through his arms. So uke can take balance of nage and reverse the waza. I'm not sure it's applicable out of lab(mat) but worthwhile to try. Rupert Atkinson and me were working together with this and he may chime in further discussing.

Jaemin
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:07 PM   #30
Ecosamurai
 
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Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
If you haven't got their balance ... you have no chance of getting ikkyo. If you truly have their balance ... they have no way to counter.

100% of ikkyo problems are a lack of taking balance, or, uke regaining balance (due to tori error or uke craft) shortly after.
Exactly what I was going to say, ikkyo isn't much to do with the arm, my teacher often demonstrates it holding your fingertips with a very gentle touch that's taken me almost ten years to begin to approximate.
You can't do that unless you've already got their balance.

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:35 PM   #31
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Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Two ways to escape, by force or skill. force will only work if you are significantly strong enough to overpower uke, and he is unskilled enough to let it happen. And a skillful escape requires compliance to the point of neuralization. Basically they let you apply the technique, and don't resist. This also neutralizes the aggression.... good luck (sorry i meant to say, you let them apply the ikkyo)... grammar mistake....
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:13 PM   #32
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Quote:
Jaemin Yu wrote: View Post
I think I know what you talk about and it feels like folding uke as if compressing an empty coke can. So all -kyo wazas feel like nikyo. Btw, there are still room for escaping if uke keeps(or at least tries to keep) his own balance. Nage becomes very prone to counter when he folds uke through his arms. So uke can take balance of nage and reverse the waza. I'm not sure it's applicable out of lab(mat) but worthwhile to try. Rupert Atkinson and me were working together with this and he may chime in further discussing.

Jaemin
Jaemin was my student in Korea for 10 years. Then I left. Then I went back. Jaemin was then a senior programmer at Samsung = smart. Very smart. Probably not many smarter. And he had/has been studying this n that. Aiki / Aunkai / anything. He was/is now my teacher. I am now back in NZ and trying to figure it all out!

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