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Old 10-12-2006, 08:24 AM   #76
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
SO a big question for me..
Should Aikido remain traditional, for lack of a better word , and be exactly as O'Sensei intended it to be, verbatim? Or is it possible for Aikido to be fluid and evolve with the time so to speak.
I have gotten to the point that I have glimpses of what takemusu aiki is really about. The techniques create themselves through ki musubi. When I really let go of particular form -- the fundamental form sometimes finds me.
Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
I'm wondering if Aikido looses some of it's spirit/strength when someone adapts it to modern times or perhaps takes Aikido in somewhat of a different direction than Osensei originally intended IE. Tomiki (sp?) Aikido. (The style which uses limited? competition).
I cannot presume to judge Tomiki-ha having never practiced in that mode. I have at various times practiced in Federation, ASU and Iwama oriented dojos. That is about all I would say to distinguish those -- orientation. They still cover the field if you go through their programs. I have some limited exposure to Chiba sensei, who has, shall we say, an orientation within an orientation, but very valuable time spent, without doubt. I have had a very brief taste of Yoshinkan in Japan as well, and it is very different in its initial scheme of approach, but not, I judge different in its ultimate coverage. Emphasis and scheduling of concepts is more the distinguishing factor between all of these.

While I have no experience with any Tohei lineage (Ki Society/ Shinshin Toitsu), or with Tomiki/Shodokan, I can envisage an approach that begins with a competitive element (so prevalent in modern society) in a limited range of techniques and perhaps finding ways to obviate the competitive drive by that means itself in demonstrating that he who gives up direct confrontation first actually wins. This may be a study in homeopathy where a little touch of the fever may in fact be a cure for the disease that causes it. It runs the risk of a allowing the competitive (force versus force) element a longer period of dominance in practice if not managed very closely.

By no means will I presume to criticize Tohei's approach either, having no experience in it. I can hoewever see an approach from the opposite end of the spectrum as Tomiki. Founding training in development ki musubi and bodily sensitivity as preliminary to study in expression of aiki through technique. This would keep the competitive (force versus force) element almost entirely at bay. It would run the risk of frustrating the competitive urge, rather than sublimating it, or in losing martial connection in a contemplative kind of absorption.

I do not know if these speculations are true to the arc of their curricula or not. I could imagine on my sense of the whole spectrum of aikido teaching that I have experienced that it may be. If so, I find no problem with either of them from that standpoint of being "true" aikido. (As if it were my place to say).

I find my preference in the middle ground of the "traditional" because both tendencies to depart from the center -- the quietist and the activist can be simultaneously quelled. But that is a preference and may not answer to all needs.

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Is there a big divide between Aikidoa who believe Aikido shouldn't be changed at all and those who think it's possible to keep what Aikido is/was while adapting certain things?
The images of aikido are both curved and perpendicular -- circle and cross (juji). Movement inward (iirmi) on perpendicular track (cross) in response to a rotary force (tenkan) defines a spiral. Like a spiral, aikido is always dynamic, asymmetric, constantly changing in orientation, position and extension -- but eternal and inalterable in its fundamental form.

Which is my two cents.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:28 AM   #77
mriehle
 
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Do symbol Following the master

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Should Aikido remain traditional, for lack of a better word , and be exactly as O'Sensei intended it to be, verbatim? Or is it possible for Aikido to be fluid and evolve with the time so to speak.
These kind of questions always evoke the quote:

"Seek not to follow the master. Rather, seek what he sought."

I just wish I could remember who to attribute it to.

In any case, I think it sums up my attitude about traditional vs. adapted Aikido. But, because I never know when to shut up, I'll elaborate:

Aikido is Aikido. Traditional Aikido is just what we think O'Sensei was doing. Adapted Aikido is just what we think he would be doing now. But, physically, there can't be much variation in techniques, really. There are a finite number of ways the body moves. So, what really distinguishes Aikido from Aiki-jujitsu is attitude and intent.

So, rather than trying to be O'Sensei, we should be trying to find our path to what he was seeking. It's not clear to me that he ever truly felt like he'd found it. But it is clear to me that simply following him will prevent us from finding it.

Okay, maybe I shouldn't have tried to elaborate at 6:00am.

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Old 10-12-2006, 09:02 AM   #78
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Following the master

Quote:
Michael Riehle wrote:
"Seek not to follow the master. Rather, seek what he sought."
I just wish I could remember who to attribute it to.
"' Master, where do you dwell?' 'Come and see,' He said."
Quote:
Michael Riehle wrote:
Aikido is Aikido. Traditional Aikido is just what we think O'Sensei was doing. Adapted Aikido is just what we think he would be doing now.
I agree.
Quote:
Michael Riehle wrote:
But, physically, there can't be much variation in techniques, really. There are a finite number of ways the body moves. So, what really distinguishes Aikido from Aiki-jujitsu is attitude and intent.
Here I disagree. I believe that they are different in kind and not just in degree or simple intent of application (although this is true as well).

It is my sense that what really distinguishes Aikido from Aiki-jujitsu is not the dropping of the '-jitsu' for the '-do', but the dropping of 'ju' altogether in favor of the 'aiki'. This abandonment of the "goju" paradigm in aikido and the adoption of ki musubi as the operative principle results in very different applicaiton of aiki technique, and different forms of technique, not merely different intent in applying the same ones.
Quote:
Michael Riehle wrote:
But it is clear to me that simply following him will prevent us from finding it.
He was fairly clear that he invented aikido as a means to avoid following the arduous path he had taken, to get to the place that he found himself. He intended to have blazed a surer path for us than the one he had taken, skirting both cliff an swamp, rather than doggedly slogging through, and climbing over as he had done.

Practice the art he gave and take the path he cut back and left marked, rather than taking the path he took to get there. Depart from it too far and one may lose sight and have to rediscover the way without any guide as he did himself. Me, personally, I am not up to that.

However, that approach is very different from what he ultimately did intend, which is the constant variation of technique in direct connection to things as they occur.

That is takemusu aiki within the structure of aikido, of which demonstrative "techniques" are mere instantaneous sketches, captured frames from a larger dynamic whole, and not a "variation" from aikido per se.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:23 AM   #79
jason jordan
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Last night I thought about this while training, and maybe you will find it "Amusing"

I have found that the principles of Aikido have helped me in everyday life. At one point in my life I had an extremely quick temper, and at that time being a black belt in Shotokan really didn't help much, I was always getting suspended, or in fights etc. etc.

Now temper really isn't an issue for me, and when I feel it rising I think to myself "Masakatsu Agatsu Jason"
"True victory is victory over myself" And of course many other situations that I won't take the time to mention.

So here's the question. If I practice Mae Geri, and Hiza Geri, and small circle Ju-jutsu, BJJ waza, but apply the "Principles" of Aikido, would it not still be Aikido? A technique is just that... a technique.

But Aikido being a Do...path, way trancends simple technique. Doesn't it?

Like Bruce Lee use to say "What's a style man, we all have 2 legs and 2 arms......"

Just a question. Okay Im done God bless everybody!!!!!
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:59 AM   #80
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Jason Jordan wrote:
So here's the question. If I practice Mae Geri, and Hiza Geri, and small circle Ju-jutsu, BJJ waza, but apply the "Principles" of Aikido, would it not still be Aikido? A technique is just that... a technique.
But not all techniques are aiki techniques. And not all applications of aiki are aikido.

Jujutsu is a case in point. It is not only possible to apply aiki within a context of goju (hard/soft, push/pull) principles and techniques -- this is what, as I understand it, aiki-jujutsu does. Aikido takes the sword principles of connection (ki musubi) and uses those instead of goju as the operating principle in combat.

It is like the difference in using engine torque to turn a wheel for weighted traction acceleration or to turn a shrouded propeller for ground effect lift. Same basic type of powered torque conversion, slightly different orientation in application and utterly different operating principle for powered motion. Each has its offsetting tradeoffs, costs, uses and limitations.

I can use ground effect aerodynamics and streamlining in a weighted traction context, just as I can use aiki in a jujutsu context. But it is not the same as taking the aerodynamic principles all the way and abandoning weighted traction as a principle of powered motion.

A tracked tank and a typical hovecraft are both rather rectangular, both traverse very tough ground very effectively, can carry heaavy loads, and can follow precisely the same path in doing so, but they do it very differently.

One is not necessarily better in an absolute sense, but grave misunderstandings occur when the assumptions applying to one are used to try to categorize the other. Only if you look closely, and understood what is happening, might you see that the interface of the tank with the ground is utterly unrelated to that of the hovercraft. It is only when the hovercraft hits the water that it starts to seem really spooky, especially if you thought it was a tank you were watching, and are not well-versed in ground effect dynamics.

Quote:
Jason Jordan wrote:
But Aikido being a Do...path, way trancends simple technique. Doesn't it?
Too true. But the differences are real, not merely formal.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 10-12-2006, 10:27 AM   #81
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

I dont care if it's aikido, bjj, karate, boxing, or hockey. I only care that it works well and efficently. Never have I thought "This is an aikido technique" or "This is a bjj technique". Instead I think "This works well, I'll keep refining it", or "This is too complicated, I'll put it on the back burner", or "This is unrealistic and very low percentage. I'll just skip practicing it".

I live my way of life. But when it comes to techniques, I just use what works in competition. If I teach a bjj guy a technique from aikido and he starts using it in competiton. He is not practicing aikido. He just added a new tool to his bjj toolbox. I know a couple guys who have picked up some bastardized version of ikkyo from me though sparing. It's definatly not aikido, and I bet they concider it part of their bjj game.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-12-2006, 12:24 PM   #82
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

These points are very interesting. Oh, this is my first post, by the way.

The first time I ever heard of Aikido, it was because of Stephen Seagal. At the time, I decided I wanted nothing to do with it as, based on Seagal movies, it seemed to be one of the most vicious and sadistic martial arts imaginable involving sometimes doing completely unneccesary damage, such as continuing to injure an opponent who was clearly already beaten or damaging someone who could be beaten in a less sadistic manner. Seagal's behavior in interviews and revelations about his real life did nothing to change my mind. I later found out, of course, that the Aikido reflected in Seagal movies has little to do with real Aikido, philosophically at least.

2. I don't see that as a particular reason to dislike Aikido as I think people in all martial arts have a tendency to do that.

3. Same thing.

4. Again, all martial arts have that problem. With Aikido, I think the 'moral superiority' problem can be an issue. My best friend started Aikido before I did and was always going on and on about how it is ethically superior because it teaches to use the minimum harm and, at least some styles, the very techniques are designed for that as opposed to styles where the techniques are designed to put your opponent out of commission by damaging as quickly and completely as possible. I think people could get tired of being told how Aikido is morally superior.

5. I guess I'm in the middle too on the spiritual side but that may be a factor.

6. I'd have to think more about that one.

7. The lack of competition is a very big one, I think. A lot of people approach martial arts as a competitive sport or as something where they are out to prove something or be aggressive and Aikido doesn't meet those needs.

8. On that one, I would say that kicking/ punching styles will always more easily draw students. They seem more exciting and the basics are more easily and quickly grasped.

9. That is a big one. I used to be in a punching/ kicking style. Now, I got my brown belt in Aikido. On vacation, I will probably visit some old friends from my old style. I know that a brown belt in my old style is much more adept at what he does than I am as a brown belt in Aikido because Aikido takes much longer to develop skill. I have no delusions that I would be proficient using Aikido against a real attack. I don't know because you never know what your body memory might do but I suspect I would not be that effective. If the goal is to quickly feel that you are proficient, Aikido is not going to satisfy you.

One other point which might really fit under the philosophical part is that I can find tons of books about the philosophies behind Aikido. With most martial arts, I can find almost nothing. There may be books explaining how a technique in Kung Fu was derived from the movements of an animal or how a martial art grew out of Buddhism or Taoism. There may be books that say that a martial art is only for defense and meant to do the least harm possible. But there seems scant connection between those statements and the actual techniques.

With Aikido, at least the Aikido I am familiar with, the techniques seem designed around the philosophy of doing the least harm possible while protecting yourself. One can find endless books that are really about the philosophy. While that appeals to me, I think the more typical American mentality is much more geared to find that boring and just want to learn to annihilate your opponent and kick posterior.

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Why do people hate Aikido?



I've wondered this since joining various Internet martial arts message forums. I think the biggest (only in fact) Aikido-related disappointment I've had is seeing how a considerable number of the MA community react to Aikido.



I can't figure out why.

I've come up with a few possible reasons;



1)Icons. Icons such as Sensei Steven Seagal can either motivate beginners or turn people against said MA. Personally I've enjoyed the interviews I've seen of him and videos, others apparently are so turned off by his character or bearing that it carries over into the martial art itself. They attack the martial art THOUGH these icons.



2)Newbies jumping in with both feet which I think is a biggie (guilty of it too). I think in Martial arts, like many other things (especially religion) when someone is exposed to it and it 'clicks' with them, they go a little crazy. Jumping in with both feet they try to expose themselves to as much of the martial art/religion/sport etc.. as possible. Live eat breathe it. This can of course get sickening especially for people surrounding said individual who have to put up with hearing them preach over and over about this new martial art/religion/sport etc. (I've sure I've annoyed a good number of friends and co-workers). Maybe this comes across as just a new fad or something causing people to immediately get a negative opinion about Aikido?



3)Need to justify it. Carrying over from my last point, I think many new Aikidoa rub people the wrong way because facing criticism they feel the need (with second and third hand information) to defend and champion aikido. Considering the antagonists have "experience" bashing aikido the newbies arguments are quickly put down. The new aikidoa then either 'goes on the attack' making enemies (or an ass of themselves) or sucks back a little and learns to pick and choose their battles.



4)Other members having to justify their own choose MA. I get the feeling that many people seem to need reassurance that their chosen martial art does indeed work. At that, they constantly compare their own marital art to other ones. How effective it is against any given situation, how it deals with knife attacks wrestling on the ground kicking multiple opponents etc.. Their afraid to say hey my martial art has a weakness. It's like their so worried about what everyone else is doing and how they stack up that they miss out on the simple enjoyment of leaning and having fun in their own martial art.



5)Spirituality/Mysticism stuff. Because of the day and age we live in, I think religion, spirituality and such are looked upon with a lot of skepticism and doubt.(With good cause IMHO) It's a big your with us or against us attitude in that if someone isn't devoutly religious/spiritual, then they are at the opposite end of the spectrum and immediately become suspicious around anything approaching a spiritual aspect. Their all about the pure fighting/physical aspect. I've found the Aikidoa often somewhere in the middle. (Which is where I surprisingly find myself). We need only look to a few threads here for examples if people against the whole idea of spirituality.
Maybe some aikido schools concentrate too much on the spiritual side and less so on the physical to the point where it makes the aikido taught there in look ineffective and fake?



6)Ignorance. Stemming from my second point (new students trying to explain things) people easily get the wrong idea about Aikido. A new member starts going off about not competing, not using strikes, the art of "peace" etc.. and someone else reads that and takes the faulty facts as gospel then turns around and passes it on. Listening to lower level belts talking about the spirit of aikido. They 9we) usually don't have the whole story so our arguments and facts are a little skewered.



7)The no-competition thing is a biggie I've found. I think a decent number of people practice martial arts with a view (as large or small as i may be) to proving something to themselves or something else. The non-competition thing, especially when explained by a new Aikido, really sets Aikido up to be bashed by other martial arts. Again people watching others rather than just enjoying what their doing.



8)LARPing or live action role playing. I guess this is a term used to describe to a martial art that isn't really effective but more for show? Aikido is an easy target for this I believe because of the Samurai back round, Aikido tradition, etiquette and even using the Hakama. I can't count how many people it seems have a huge beef with Aikido because of the Hakama. Again people so turned of by the spirituality (or in this case tradition) aspect of a martial art that something like wearing a Hakama is automatic grounds for ridicule. Practicing with a bokken or sword? No need to explain that.

On a note about "LARPing", I think everyone who watches a martial art movie or fight (say UFC) is guilty of wanting to 'be that guy' or be like that guy. Maybe even just picturing themselves in that situation. If this wasn't true then people wouldn't flock to a martial arts when it falls in the spotlight, a la Royce Gracie for just one example.



9)Time required to become proficient. I think that's a major turn off for many people, ergo becoming an argument that "Aikido doesn't work". People like instant or near instant results and by all accounts with Aikido won't provide that time of results.



I'll stop there. That's about the main points I can think of off the top of my head writing this. Does anyone have any additional ideas why Aikido takes such a popularity beating by many (other) martial arts? Or perhaps comment on points I may have completely wrong?
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:09 AM   #83
Luc X Saroufim
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Why do people hate Aikido?
people "hate" for many reasons. some people are taught to hate from birth; for others, hate can be an instinctual reaction.

if you want my personal opinion, if you ever hate a martial art, it's either because you don't understand its philosophy or don't agree with its philosophy.
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:18 AM   #84
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

IMHO, people "hate" because of fear and ignorance.

OTOH, if people are insecure, they have trouble accepting differences.

Just listen to a lot of Aikido people talk about the bashing and grappling arts, a total lack of acceptance.

Don't worry about "why some people hate Aikido" and embrace the practice if you personally love it.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:53 AM   #85
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

The posts on "K. Tohei vs Aikikai" have been split off here:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11160

-- Jun

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Old 10-20-2006, 12:30 AM   #86
Chris Birke
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Why I sometimes hate Aikido :

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11160

I'd rather they just shut ** up and throw down at this stage.

(sorry... couldn't resist =) )
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Old 10-22-2006, 06:49 PM   #87
Lyle Bogin
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

People also hate aikido because aikido people think they are better than other types of martial artists, and it shows.

I myself am guilty of it. I say things like "I studied other martial arts to what I would call the collegiate level, but aikido is my graduate study". But that's how I feel about it. My skills have become really applicable in my world, through aikido training. I could not have gotten to this point with any martial art I studied in the past.
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:48 PM   #88
Douglas Fajardo
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Hi guys....
when you said (people hate Aikido ),I think is too strong word, the problem is ..... when someone it doesnt understan something, they just reject it, is true that some people make Aikido so spiritual that some occidental think that if you dont punch and hurt peolpe in a real fight,you are not fighting at all, person who reject aikido only think in force and force they dont understan (the calm inside the storm) PLEASE FORGIVE THEM ´CAUSE THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY DO ,,,, look man the most importan thing is ,YOU HAVE TO BELIVE IN AIKIDO (THE REAL BUDO) IF YOU DONT ,IF WE DONT, THEN THE WORK OF O- SENSEI WILL BE LOST FOREVER , REMEMBER BELIVE IN YOU BELIVE IN AIKIDO, DOUGLAS FG,,,,,,, NOTE ,, TRAIN AND TRAIN AHH,,,, OTHER THING, TRAINNNNNN
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:22 PM   #89
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

People hate Aikido because of its many pretentions.
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Old 10-25-2006, 03:46 PM   #90
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Douglas Fajardo wrote:
Hi guys....
when you said (people hate Aikido ),I think is too strong word, the problem is ..... when someone it doesnt understan something, they just reject it, is true that some people make Aikido so spiritual that some occidental think that if you dont punch and hurt peolpe in a real fight,you are not fighting at all, person who reject aikido only think in force and force they dont understan (the calm inside the storm) PLEASE FORGIVE THEM ´CAUSE THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY DO ,,,, look man the most importan thing is ,YOU HAVE TO BELIVE IN AIKIDO (THE REAL BUDO) IF YOU DONT ,IF WE DONT, THEN THE WORK OF O- SENSEI WILL BE LOST FOREVER , REMEMBER BELIVE IN YOU BELIVE IN AIKIDO, DOUGLAS FG,,,,,,, NOTE ,, TRAIN AND TRAIN AHH,,,, OTHER THING, TRAINNNNNN
this is probably a good example of why some people hate aikido.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:13 PM   #91
Keith R Lee
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
this is probably a good example of why some people hate aikido.
Agreed.

Keith Lee
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:33 PM   #92
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Practice of Aikido seems to breed certain eccentricities of character (see above).
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:00 PM   #93
Jess McDonald
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

wow you guys. That like, took twenty minutes to read all these posts. Did we even get anywhere with all this? I'm so lost...
Jess
PS this doesn't really matter does it?
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:17 PM   #94
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
I say things like "I studied other martial arts to what I would call the collegiate level, but aikido is my graduate study"
Hmm, If you go around saying things like this is it any wonder people hate you. Sorry to be blunt.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:14 AM   #95
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Jess McDonald wrote:
wow you guys. That like, took twenty minutes to read all these posts. Did we even get anywhere with all this? I'm so lost...
Jess
PS this doesn't really matter does it?

This is the best post on this thread.

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:26 AM   #96
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

You took twenty minutes out of your day to read these posts-you seem to think it matters.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:39 AM   #97
The Aikido Kid
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Lyle Bogin wrote:
People also hate aikido because aikido people think they are better than other types of martial artists, and it shows.

I myself am guilty of it. I say things like "I studied other martial arts to what I would call the collegiate level, but aikido is my graduate study". But that's how I feel about it. My skills have become really applicable in my world, through aikido training. I could not have gotten to this point with any martial art I studied in the past.
What I found 'turned me off' about Aikido for a while before I started studying it was my best friend touting its superiority. He was not referring to its technical superiority in terms of techniques but that, at least in the style he was familiar with which is Yoshinkan, the techniques are designed around subduing with the least harm. His opinion was and is that while all martial arts speak of self -defense only and doing the least harm neccessary, the techniques themselves are not developed or changed based around that philosophy.

One thing I hear a lot at the dojo is that most martial artists will try to avoid a combat situation but, once it is inevitable, the actual techniques of most styles are not designed around the least harm. In the style I'm studying, many techniques that were originally designed to break bones or otherwise severally damage, are altered enough to subdue rather than break.

Of course, I also believe that it is ultimately the instructor more than the style. An instructor will adapt things to fit his beliefs.

There is a story I heard about a man who had attained a black belt, possibly higher than First degree, in a karate style. He got into a confrontation with his brother who was drunk. During the argument, his brother threw a punch at him. Before he even realized what he was doing, he blocked so hard it dislocated his brother's shoulder and punched so hard it broke his jaw and gave him a concussion.

Needless to say, he was horrified at what he had done. Even though his brother had attacked, it was just a roundhouse that would have done little harm. He felt his counter was completely inappropriate to the intentions of the attacker. But he realized he had simply done what he was trained to do, attack hard and incapacitate the attacker completely as quickly as possible. In spite of the level he had attained, he dropped out of the style because he did not want that sort of instinctive reaction conditioned into him. He searched for other styles and eventually began studying Aikido, reaching the same level he had been in the other style and beyond it. But he chose a style of Aikido specifically because, had he trained in that style, his trained reaction would have been much different, to subdue without causing serious harm if it was not neccessary.

Now, probably Aikido people telling stories like that is precisely why some people hate Aikido. It implies that Aikido is somehow ethically superior. I know I resented stories like that before I started studying Aikido. I still think the attitude is flawed on two levels. First, it will take a long time to develop that level of proficiency if one ever does. Secondly, I suspect most styles could be adapted to adhere to the same philosophy as, again, it is more the instructor that the style.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:38 AM   #98
Keith R Lee
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

This is along the lines we have been discussing:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=2476

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It is my belief that this rediscovery alone that will revive Aikido into its true place as the most sophisticated and highly developed martial art that uncovers innate Enlightenment within those that have found its essence.
Stuff like that really tends to turn off practical, rational people. Especially those in competitive MAs.

Keith Lee
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Old 10-26-2006, 12:40 PM   #99
Guilty Spark
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Some practioners passive-agressive attitudes likewise could be a huge turn off.

I know I've read some arguments on aikiweb and just thought to myself wow. Smiling pretty words and pretending to be friendly doesn't make personal attacks any less hurtful. Actually kind of reminds me of politics which is a bit of a disapointment.

Quote:
PS this doesn't really matter does it?
Yes and no, I guess Jess. If this stuff doesn't matter to you then thats probably a really good thing. I know I love Aikido regardless what people say about it or peoples reactions to it. I just thought it would be interesting to explore why some people feel how they do and to see aikido from their point of view. Figured it would help me understand Aikido better, even to a small extent.

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

You don't own what you can't defend
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Old 10-26-2006, 01:42 PM   #100
kironin
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

I think a more productive thread really might be "Why do people love aikido ?"

People could discuss why they love it and then perhaps we could discuss how to foster having more of that.


I am not convinced that focusing on people's negative reactions is going to lead to much understanding. So often that seems to have less to do with aikido itself than with the shortcomings we all have as individuals.

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