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Old 10-10-2006, 05:54 PM   #51
Aristeia
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
however there are some posters there who have taken a few years of Aikido and quit. Many of which suggest it's a waste of time. I admit I'm interested in hearing why these "ex-Aikidoa" quit and what their feelings are towards it. Maybe theirs something to learn from it, maybe not.
well you can probably put me in that boat. I ceased formally training in Aikido at the start of this year to concentrate on BJJ. The reason? Basically time. If I won the lotto tomorrow and didn't have to work a job I'd go back to Aikido most likely (as well as starting some other stuff).

I just felt I was getting more out of BJJ and had further to go there so that's where I decided to put my time. Which isn't to say I felt I knew everything about aikido by a long stretch. But I found the BJJ environment refreashing. I enjoy the sparring. I particularly enjoy taking that technique you've learned low res=istance and going on that journey to make it work in sparring. That path is not one you get to walk in Aikido.

Having said that, I still think Aikido is a great art. I'll still defend it at places like Bullshido and RMA. And I'll likely get back on an Aikido mat in later life.

But defending it on places like Bullshido has given me some insight into what you're talking about. I find if your defense is honest and realistic it's pretty well received. In otherwords if you're up front about what Aikido is good for, and not good for, the limitations of the training method, but also the rationale for it etc most people will give you a "fair enough". As some of the others have said it's only when poeple come on with the attitude of "Aikido is the most sophisticated art - it's superior" and a string of excuses as to why it doesn't cover certain things (like groundfighting) instead of just saying "meh, that's not what it's for" then yeah, then you have a pretty hard time.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:25 PM   #52
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote:
I think a small pocket of people, mostly anonymous in internet troll pits, dislike aikido (or claim to for trolling) because they are highly intimidated by a doctrine of peace in the martial arts, and suffer cognitive dissonance from the fact that people don't have to be into shiny belts and trophies to be able to use their martial arts effectively in real life situations.
Hmm...
Sample size? p value?
Just kidding!
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:45 PM   #53
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

I struggle many times trying not to post on forums like bushido or any of the many many forums there are (including this one),

because I think that debating the issue of whether or not Aikido works or doesn't work or "Why one hates Aikido" to be a debate that shows a simple lack of understanding.

(Please... I mean no offense to anyone), but all martial arts have holes, flaws, and "weakness" I am learning BJJ (no I'm not an expert or even close) but I see many weakness that i have been able to exploit with Aikido techniques.

I rank in karate disciplines as well as Aikido and I see weakness.
My point is simply this. When are we as martial artist going to realize that the only true weakness in any art is us the martial artist?

The art itself has nothing to do with anything. It has everything to do with how well "We" as martial artist can adapt to the situation.

If our training is weak than we will be weak, if our training focuses on only a limited amount of pre-arranged attacks, maneuvers etc. etc. then we will be limited.

To me these topics give me a possible indication that martial artist "Aikidoka" in particular may not be thinking. They are learning techniques but never asking or experimenting with situations that could arise.

Maybe!? there is a difference between Martial artist, and martial practitioners? Don't mean to sound like Confusious says, and these are just my opinions...

Train hard people
Jjo
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:18 PM   #54
Al Williams
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
To me these topics give me a possible indication that martial artist "Aikidoka" in particular may not be thinking. They are learning techniques but never asking or experimenting with situations that could arise.
This is a point that needs attention. I agreee that some aikido schools are very static and almost totaly kata like. There are however many schools, including my own, that work hard to have relevant, dynamic and realistic training.

I work as a police officer, sensei as a prison offficer. We both known the importance of realistic and experimental training.

TRAIN HARD AND OFTEN
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:08 PM   #55
statisticool
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote:
Hmm...
Sample size? p value?
Just kidding!
Just my personal belief from what I've encountered; biased, limited, sample, only of descriptive value to me.

And what I've heard from others with more experience.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:44 PM   #56
DonMagee
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Jason Jordan wrote:
I struggle many times trying not to post on forums like bushido or any of the many many forums there are (including this one),

because I think that debating the issue of whether or not Aikido works or doesn't work or "Why one hates Aikido" to be a debate that shows a simple lack of understanding.

(Please... I mean no offense to anyone), but all martial arts have holes, flaws, and "weakness" I am learning BJJ (no I'm not an expert or even close) but I see many weakness that i have been able to exploit with Aikido techniques.

I rank in karate disciplines as well as Aikido and I see weakness.
My point is simply this. When are we as martial artist going to realize that the only true weakness in any art is us the martial artist?

The art itself has nothing to do with anything. It has everything to do with how well "We" as martial artist can adapt to the situation.

If our training is weak than we will be weak, if our training focuses on only a limited amount of pre-arranged attacks, maneuvers etc. etc. then we will be limited.

To me these topics give me a possible indication that martial artist "Aikidoka" in particular may not be thinking. They are learning techniques but never asking or experimenting with situations that could arise.

Maybe!? there is a difference between Martial artist, and martial practitioners? Don't mean to sound like Confusious says, and these are just my opinions...

Train hard people
Jjo
What is an aikido technique? I have techniques, I do not have aikido techniques, bjj techniques, tkd techniques, judo techniques. I have only techniques. When I learn them it becomes part of my personal aikido or personal bjj. If I one day become a bjj instructor, they will learn all of these techniques I have found useful. Martial arts evolve and change with time (or at least they should). You can not categorize anything as a 'X' technique, you can only say where you learned it.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-10-2006, 11:41 PM   #57
Aristeia
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

hmmm...interesting question you raise there Don.
Personally I'm not a big fan of the "it's the artist not the art" line. I mean to some degree that is obviously important, but so is the art. If an art has obvious gaps (eg aikido on the ground, bjj against multiple opponents and weapons), then it's not an issue with the artist that they are less competent in those areas - you wouldn't expect them to be when the art they practice doesn't train for that.
So art is important as well as artist.

Now to the question of what techniques. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of becoming say, a BJJ teacher and teaching Aikido techniques. Depending how it's done. The reason I say this is I have seen others who have, say a black belt in Aikido, pick up bits and pieces of other arts and then teach it all under th Aikido banner. This is a problem because of a lack of disclosure. Potential students don't differentiate between the black belt level of instruction they are getting for shiho nage and the 2 stripe white belt level of instruction they are getting for spinning choke.

So I know exactly what you mean when you say it all coalesces for you, but I think if you are going to teach under the banner of an established art - you need to have your credentials clear, and when you step outside of those credentials also make that clear as well. If that makes sense.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:09 AM   #58
Jeanne Shepard
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Well, I train, and sometimes I hate it.

Jeanne
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:23 AM   #59
CNYMike
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
What is an aikido technique? .... You can not categorize anything as a 'X' technique, you can only say where you learned it.
Which is the same difference, really, because there are two things going on at the same time in any MA class -- learning the techniques and learning the system they're a part of. For instance, because there is only a finite number of ways in which to lock the arm's joints, there is no difference between Aikido techniques and grappling techniques in other systems. Yet there is probably world of difference between the average Aikido class and the average BJJ class. That difference is where the "system level" rears its ugly head, and there's no avoiding it because your'e doing both at the same time.

So I would agree and "Aikido technique" is one you learn in Aikido and a BJJ technique is one you learned in BJJ, even if the joint mechanics are the same, there's still a difference.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:05 AM   #60
xuzen
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Let me put in this analogy....

A dentist specializes in oral health; whereas a cardiologist specializes in cardiovasular health. Don't ask a cardiologist to extract your tooth and don't ask your dentist to perform open heart surgery on you. Each professional (art) has its specialisation. That is what makes all this forum so exciting and enticing.

I think it would be very boring if a forum comprises only a homogeneous mix. Thank god aikiweb members are from different area of expertise. Eg. Don/Aristeia with their BJJ background, Keith - Sambo, PeterG - true blue aikikai, Kevin Levitt with his army combative background makes the discussion more interesting. It is also good to hear external inputs / ideas from these people.

Boon.

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Old 10-11-2006, 01:10 AM   #61
Aristeia
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

I agree. The internet has made training martial arts much more interesting and enlightened.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:02 AM   #62
Guilty Spark
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Thank god aikiweb members are from different area of expertise. Eg. Don/Aristeia with their BJJ background, Keith - Sambo, PeterG - true blue aikikai, Kevin Levitt with his army combative background makes the discussion more interesting. It is also good to hear external inputs / ideas from these people.
Which is why I posted the question and also appreciate hearing aikido views from people who
a) dislike/dismiss or hate aikido
b) were students of aikido and quit.

Interesting to see perspectives from the other side of the fence.

Seems a major issue with Aikido is, as i mentioned in one of my first examples, new members not really understanding aikido or the theories. They jump in with both feet and regurgitate what they hear without really understanding it or how it encompasses them.

It was mentioned some people try and change aikido to suit them instead of trying to change themselves to, if I'm reading that right.

I'm not sure what I think about that. I know I'm guilty of it. I've taken Aikido principals and tried to incorporate them into my life and how I do things instead of maybe the other way around. Doing something the aikido way for lack of a better explanation?
One of my first posts here was a question on how I apply Aikido principals to the military. A passive non-aggression stance, in my situation, WILL get me killed. Not to mention my peers.
I took the non-aggression stuff at face value without really exploring what it meant or what it could mean/include. I'm still confident there is a way to "be aggressive" while applying Aikido principals, I just need to figure out a better word for it and how to successfully do it.

I think a lot of people get hung up where I do, in that they read/hear principals but lack the experience and exposure in how to properly do them. People are quick to want to adopt these principals but need to figure out that there are different ways of, for example, being aggressive?
Aggressive is probably a poor word. Assertive? Professional? Steadfast?
'Keep your distance and behave or suffer consequences'

I'm still not sure if it would be better for me to try and take an altered perspective (from my point of view maybe) on what aikido is and apply it to my life (thus being guilty of not practicing traditional aikido?) or if I should follow a set of strict guidelines.

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

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Old 10-11-2006, 05:37 AM   #63
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Grant,

Quote:
Which is why I posted the question and also appreciate hearing aikido views from people who
a) dislike/dismiss or hate aikido
b) were students of aikido and quit.
As i'm not in the a) nor b) situation, maybe my oppinion shouldn't be appreciated but as an Aikido/BJJ practitioneer (who sometimes post at BS.net) i think yourself nailed the main problems of Aikido dismissal:

1.- You wrote: ..."a lot of people get hung up where I do, in that they read/hear principals but lack the experience and exposure in how to properly do them."

You can imagine a guy like me, who didn't passed the medical exam for the military service (visual impaired), joining a web forum populated by pros like you or Kevin and start lecturing you about military tactics, strategies and so on based on my experience in paintball playing and Tom Clancy novels...?

and

2.- "I'm still not sure if it would be better for me to try and take an altered perspective (from my point of view maybe) on what aikido is and apply it to my life (thus being guilty of not practicing traditional aikido?) or if I should follow a set of strict guidelines."

I don't think modifiying Aikido to make it like you want to be is a good idea. Harmonizing Aikido with your life, your work and the world you're living in doesn't require taking an altered (fake and limited) perspective. Go for real both in your life and in Aikido and things will became to go well together.

In any case, take care and keep the good work.

DCS
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:58 AM   #64
DonMagee
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
Now to the question of what techniques. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of becoming say, a BJJ teacher and teaching Aikido techniques. Depending how it's done. The reason I say this is I have seen others who have, say a black belt in Aikido, pick up bits and pieces of other arts and then teach it all under th Aikido banner. This is a problem because of a lack of disclosure. Potential students don't differentiate between the black belt level of instruction they are getting for shiho nage and the 2 stripe white belt level of instruction they are getting for spinning choke.

So I know exactly what you mean when you say it all coalesces for you, but I think if you are going to teach under the banner of an established art - you need to have your credentials clear, and when you step outside of those credentials also make that clear as well. If that makes sense.
I agree with you that there is a problem of discolsure. But I would say it is limited to non-competitive arts. I see guys litterally make up stuff all the time. It gets taught and incorperated into bjj or stolen from somewhere and incorporated into bjj (rubber guard?, Twister?, DeLa Riva hook?) In a non-competitive art, i could buy a book on bjj or take some limited instruction and teach my students and they would have no idea that I really have no buisness teaching this stuff. In a competitive art, I would only be teaching techniques that I have had competitive success in. Of course it would be different then the kata aikido version. But I learned it from there. It works in competition, I teach it to my students, it works for them, they teach it, it becomes bjj. Eddie Bravo 'stole' a lot of stuff from wrestling. It doesnt' mean it's not bjj. By this diffinition I would have to say my Tai Otoshi and uchi mada are bjj techniques because I learned them in bjj before I was shown them in judo. But this is probably the subject of another thread all together.

It does highlight another point though. One problem I have with a lot of instructors and it is a problem common to a lot of people who 'hate' a martial art is that a lot of instructors will add what bullshido calls 'crappling' to their art to try to give their students some sense of being able to deal with a competitive fighter. They will show them 'anti-grappling' or give them really bad instruction that they learned from some bjj or gracie video. Aikido guys are not tipically the artists that do this, but I have met a few guys who train in aikido who said their teacher has shown them how to beat a judo or bjj guy. I find this really silly especially because I did not think the goal of aikido was to 'beat' anyone. In any case it shows the teacher is not confident in his ablities because he needs to re-assure his students that it is simple to defeat a trained, in shape, athlete. This also causes a lot of anger and 'hatred' from sport athletes because it is frustrating to see people claiming it is possible to defeat you with a simple elbow on the shoot, or an eye gouge from the mount. Again aikido is usually not the art I see this happen in. But it is a thing that seems to be prevelant amoung non-competitive arts. There seems to be a growing trend to 'prove' that they can take competitive arts. This usually just means blowing smoke to convince your students they are getting training comparable to a combat sport athlete and that if it wasn't for the vow of non-competition, they could step into that MMA ring and tear up any guy in front of them.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:09 AM   #65
happysod
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
This also causes a lot of anger and 'hatred' from sport athletes because it is frustrating to see people claiming it is possible to defeat you with a simple elbow on the shoot, or an eye gouge from the mount
My horse stance will defeat all shoots! Sorry, couldn't resist - of course I'm just joking here, the correct response would of course be wieght underside and extend ki (possibly with a side order of super sayen).

To be fair (and serious) for a minute, this type of "crappling" occasionally comes about due to sheer vitriol of some (often newbie) grapplers who do give you the impression they would butt-scoot along the mat until they had you in the "deadly closed guard" under any and all circumstances - if you get a shite attack, some awful defenses do actually work (hey, just look at some of the shomen-uchi attacks for the beam in aikido's eye)
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:57 AM   #66
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
For instance, because there is only a finite number of ways in which to lock the arm's joints, there is no difference between Aikido techniques and grappling techniques in other systems. Yet there is probably world of difference between the average Aikido class and the average BJJ class.
... So I would agree and "Aikido technique" is one you learn in Aikido and a BJJ technique is one you learned in BJJ, even if the joint mechanics are the same, there's still a difference.
The key is what is that difference, and are the joint mechanics being exploited in the same way, or at all. One difference is approach and that is psychological/spiritual/motivational -- call it what you will. I have spoken to this somewhat above.

The other difference is in the principle of action being employed. In that aikido is very distinct, for instance in the primary use of tegatana, musubi and taisabaki -- vice grappling and goju. I will not divert the thread with my views on this score. But this aspect of aikido alone is significantly different in principle of action which displays itself in technique and application, not just source of teaching.

I can say without fear of contradiction that the principle of action in aikido is generally viewed as more subtle than that applied in many other arts. This is simultaneously its key strength, it's fundamental diffculty in learning, the source of a false mysticism in the misty eyes of some new adherents, and the commensurately great criticism from other quarters of misunderstanding -- all for that same reason.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:14 PM   #67
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
I think a lot of people get hung up where I do, in that they read/hear principals but lack the experience and exposure in how to properly do them. People are quick to want to adopt these principals but need to figure out that there are different ways of, for example, being aggressive?
Aggressive is probably a poor word. Assertive? Professional? Steadfast?
Nope. Aggressive is a good word. "A gressio" -- Latin, means "move towards" -- i.e -- irimi. Precisely the right word. The intent of that movement (of body or mind) is the modifier that troubles you, and it must always be ambiguous until completed.
Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
I'm still not sure if it would be better for me to try and take an altered perspective (from my point of view maybe) on what aikido is and apply it to my life (thus being guilty of not practicing traditional aikido?) or if I should follow a set of strict guidelines.
Perspective is a funny thing. Depending on that, the earth can seem either flat or round, and can be treated one way or the other depending on the need.

But it remains what it is notwithstanding any asssumptions of convenience I may make.

Be committed to what is real as well as what is useful, without assuming that one is necessarily the same as the other and you will hardly go wrong -- either way.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:57 PM   #68
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Hey Erick, Good post way back there a few (in response to mine). Exactly what I was hoping would come out in the discussion and I agree.

I did not mean to insinuate that you would think otherwise than what you have stated. Good conversation!
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:16 PM   #69
jason jordan
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

[quote=Alistair Williams]This is a point that needs attention. I agreee that some aikido schools are very static and almost totaly kata like. There are however many schools, including my own, that work hard to have relevant, dynamic and realistic training. QUOTE]

Alistar I agree with you, and I should have said "Some Schools". please forgive me.
I think that if more MA schools (all forms) focus on adapting to the times and situations we will all be better artists for it.
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:42 PM   #70
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Yea Jason, but then you bring up the whole argument of the dilution of aikido and if it should remain a pure art form as intended by the founder.

a Parochial view point says that If we all took aikido and evolve it, adapt it to the times, and focus on situations, we can end up with something totally other than what the founder intended, which was to use it as a methodlogy to communicate his philosophy.

BJJ is a good example of an successful adaptation of jiujitsu in a different vein.

If we start adapting aikido, and modifiying it...do we evolve it into something else?

I am a MMA practictioner, so I completely agree on an individual basis in the concept of making an art your own and adapting it to fit your needs/goals. I think it is imperitive to do so if you want to be a good martial artist.

However, I have also grown to appreciate the need to perserve a degree of parocialism, tradition, and, rigidness to a system like aikido...I think you have to balance things out.

I teach martial arts, and essentially do a hybrid based on aikido and BJJ. I would not hold out that I teach aikido or BJJ unless it followed the programs and methodlogies that I was granted to teach by the commonly recognized governing bodies of those arts, namely Aikikai and the Confederation of Brazilian Jiujitsu.

I am not one to be too concerned with lineage, more concerned with effectiveness...that said, it is important, I think with all the guys in the MMA community professing to have the latest and greatest moves, to establish their backgrounds.

Organizations like Aikikai, and CBJJ offer some degree of confidence that the instructor has at least been recognized with a certain degree of competence.

Adapting is a good thing...on an individual level. Some adaptations will turn into formal arts and systems. Both Aikido and BJJ are good examples of arts that have evolved in the 20th Century as adaptations on Older TMA systems.

Aikido though, to me, is very clear about it's intent. I tend to be a classical aikidoka I suppose. I think many have hijacked the name of aikido and have modified it to a point that it has confused many students about the expectations and endstates of the art. To the point that has caused much of the dialoque we see here...people with differing opinions about what aikido is.

I suppose also that might be a good thing....who wants a bunch of people all agreeing homogenously about what they are doing...it would kinda stiffle the whole thinking and growing thing.

I know I just hate it when you have people that honestly believe that they are studying something that will make them some lethal, untouchable fighting machine, when the goal of aikido is to refine spirit, generate awareness, and foster peace and harmony.

I think sensei or purported sensei have an obligation to ensure that students are appropriately guided on the path and are not some deluded "star wars kid".

Anyway thoughts you generated in my mind Jason! Thanks!
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:35 PM   #71
jason jordan
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Wow!! Good points.

I most definately agree with the intentions of O'sensei and his heart towards Aikido, and the harmonious nature that true aikido keiko should foster.

As far as tradtion is concerned, I think tradition should be followed but only followed with thought and understanding. i.e. don't practice tradition without understanding from where and why the traditional thoughts came about.

But I look at it like this. Aikido is still a martial art, and whereas O'sensei dealt with swords, spears, jo's, bokken, we deal with knives, guns, people wanting to prove their art is better, men raping women etc etc etc. So that in itself brings the need to adapt.

I am finding that tradtion is a hard thing to deal with. (As a Preaching Christian) I have found that some traditional thought was not always "THE BEST WAY" but I have also found that when we try to adjust (Adapt), some people take things waaaayyyyy to far.

And this has been the case with a lot of different situations.
I love Aikido becuase of the philosophy and heart of the art, but I am also drawn to the Martial side of the art and find that I need to in my practice and developement observe the modern day situations "THAT COULD ARRIVE" "keeping the heart and mind of what my Aikido training provides. Ai Ki DO...path, way. Not Jutsu = techniques. (Correct me if Im wrong)

Times have changed therefore we must understand the times, however truth is truth no matter what!

I am rushing my thoughts because it is 30 mins before class time, and I really want to explore this more.

But I hope that I am expressing myself clearly to some degree?!?!?!

Thank you for your time!!!
Jjo
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Old 10-12-2006, 12:25 AM   #72
Guilty Spark
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Good post Jason (Erik and Kevin as well!)

Very true about having to adapt.

SO a big question for me..
Should Aikido remain traditional, for lack of a better word , and be exactly as O'Sensei intended it to be, verbatim? Or is it possible for Aikido to be fluid and evolve with the time so to speak.
I'm wondering if Aikido looses some of it's spirit/strength when someone adapts it to modern times or perhaps takes Aikido in somewhat of a different direction than Osensei originally intended IE. Tomiki (sp?) Aikido. (The style which uses limited? competition).

Is there a big divide between Aikidoa who believe Aikido shouldn't be changed at all and those who think it's possible to keep what Aikido is/was while adapting certain things?

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

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Old 10-12-2006, 12:45 AM   #73
xuzen
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Guilty Spark wrote:
One of my first posts here was a question on how I apply Aikido principals to the military. A passive non-aggression stance, in my situation, WILL get me killed. Not to mention my peers.
When we think about aikido and her priciples (harmony, non-aggressive, blending etc etc) it is probably seen from a civilian perspective. You know, peaceful living among neighbours; love thy neighbour kind of warm fuzzy feelings. I can imagine that such stuff isn't very practical for a serviceman in the middle of a war such as yourself.

So Grant, no need to lose sleep over this contradictory idea. In times of war; you are a soldier not a civilian. For that I think you have the Army Code of Conduct and Geneva Convention for reference?

Boon.

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Old 10-12-2006, 12:58 AM   #74
xuzen
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Good post Jason (Erik and Kevin as well!)

Very true about having to adapt.

SO a big question for me..
Should Aikido remain traditional, for lack of a better word , and be exactly as O'Sensei intended it to be, verbatim? Or is it possible for Aikido to be fluid and evolve with the time so to speak.
I'm wondering if Aikido looses some of it's spirit/strength when someone adapts it to modern times or perhaps takes Aikido in somewhat of a different direction than Osensei originally intended IE. Tomiki (sp?) Aikido. (The style which uses limited? competition).

Is there a big divide between Aikidoa who believe Aikido shouldn't be changed at all and those who think it's possible to keep what Aikido is/was while adapting certain things?
Just look at all of O'Sensei's top student... how many of them do aikido as what O'Sensei did. There... question answered.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:46 AM   #75
Tom H.
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Which is why I posted the question and also appreciate hearing aikido views from people who
a) dislike/dismiss or hate aikido
b) were students of aikido and quit.
I'm catagory B for now. I found some conditioning to develop my body in a certain way that aikido was not doing as strongly, to which I want to devote daily time doing. If I were unemployed I would have time to do this as well as participate in an aikido dojo, but I'm not, yet. Check back in six months.
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