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03-02-2006, 08:07 AM
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#101
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Dojo: Itten Suginami Dojo, Nunspeet
Location: Wapenveld
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 350
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
OK,
What do we do with this.
The Doshu's latest book, page 47, Atemi, defined as, and I quote, "pre-emptive strike".
Nishio Sensei's book lists a variety of atemi that naturally go at the beginning of a technique.
The essence of Aikido is irimi, not tenkan.
peace, brothers
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If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
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03-02-2006, 10:00 AM
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#102
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Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Quote:
Hi Nick. I can' even remember where I heard that...at least I assume I heard it somewhere...it's too good for me to have come up with on my own...
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well, it's a saying worth remembering where ever it came from
Ah, the great thing about aikiweb, things can indeed come back to haunt you/us/them. Muwhahaha. Ahem.
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They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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03-02-2006, 10:02 AM
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#103
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Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Quote:
The Doshu's latest book, page 47, Atemi, defined as, and I quote, "pre-emptive strike".
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Cool. I like that, it's nice to have something to point at people who have a very definate idea about what constitutes aikido/atemi...
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They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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03-02-2006, 10:41 AM
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#104
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Dojo: Aikido South
Location: Johnson City, TN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,209
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Michael Jordan (a famous basketball player for the Chicago Bulls) once said in an interview [to paraphrase]: "When I have the ball, I've already scored, my defender just doesn't know it yet."
When does pre-emption begin? If I choose to "pre-emptively" strike someone, does pre-emption only include physical activity? What If my opponent has decided to strike me, but has not found the opportunity to physically execute that decision? Is it fair to restrict the scope of aikido to reaction to physical activity?
If my opponent decides to harm me, isn't that the same as the physical execution of harm? "The opponent that stands before me with malice in his/her heart is already defeated."
It sounds like we're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water here. Please don't confuse the benevolent execution of pre-emption with the misinterpretation of hitting someone first. Pre-emptive action, in this case striking, is a valuable tool to training and resolving conflict; in many cases, I call this pro-active aikido.
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03-02-2006, 03:28 PM
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#105
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Dojo: Nashville Aikikai
Location: Nashville, Tn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 288
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Ron/Nick,
I read that thread today and immediately thought of this thread when I read David's post as well. LOL
Jon,
Well stated.
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Harmony does not mean that there are no conflicts,
for the dynamic spiral of existence embraces both extremes.
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03-03-2006, 01:34 AM
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#106
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Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 470
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Quote:
Jon Reading wrote:
When does pre-emption begin? If I choose to "pre-emptively" strike someone, does pre-emption only include physical activity? What If my opponent has decided to strike me, but has not found the opportunity to physically execute that decision? Is it fair to restrict the scope of aikido to reaction to physical activity?
If my opponent decides to harm me, isn't that the same as the physical execution of harm? "The opponent that stands before me with malice in his/her heart is already defeated."
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All I learned about aikido is that the goal is, to feel the "vibrations" before anything happens physically.
So simply said, if you know, that the attack has started, you have to act, atemi or other technique. In jurisdiction you have to prove, in aikido you have to know, but it is not enough, just to believe an aggression would come.
And it is not enough to tell others, that you have proof about prepared evil aggression until finally you believe it yourself. But that is another thread.
One can argue, in this case pre-emtive strikes are allowed, when the intension is there, or what is allowed is not a pre-emptive strike as the attack was already alive - even if not visible. To me it is all the same.
Dirk
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03-05-2006, 06:24 AM
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#107
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Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
If you go home and find your wife/girlfriend/lover in bed with someone else, it is generally too late for any kind of pre-emptive strike.
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03-06-2006, 06:58 AM
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#108
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Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Nah, the pre-emptive strike should have been keeping her happy in the first place!
Good one, Mark!
Ron
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Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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03-07-2006, 05:35 AM
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#109
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Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Or warning her not to be naughty...
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They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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03-07-2006, 11:17 AM
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#110
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Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
If you go home and find your wife/girlfriend/lover in bed with someone else, it is generally too late for any kind of pre-emptive strike.
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For my wife, I guess a good preemptive strike would be to already have a suitcase packed for her.
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"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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03-16-2006, 11:41 AM
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#111
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Dojo: Nathan Darnell
Location: Riverside, CA
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Quote:
Mathew Nowak wrote:
You do not have to wait for anything, you can feel free to strike pre-emptively; all I am saying is that then your action is not in line with Aikido theory and philosophy.
There are NO pre-emptive strikes in Aikido. In the real world, of course there are pre-emptive strikes. The question, however, was whether Aikido has pre-emptive strikes.
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Mathew,
I have studied Kenpo for the last 13 years and have just recently ventured into Aikido. I am very confused by your understanding of Aikido. If you acknowledge that preemptive strikes are necessary in the real world, but Aikido does not permit them, then you are saying that someone looking for an effective form of self defense should look somewhere other than Aikido, are you not?
Nathan
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03-16-2006, 11:51 AM
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#112
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Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
Offline
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Re: pre-emptive strikes
Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
For my wife, I guess a good preemptive strike would be to already have a suitcase packed for her.
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I'd love to see you explaining that one away when she says "James, where have all my clothes gone?"
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Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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