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Old 08-21-2014, 12:06 PM   #51
NagaBaba
 
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Re: YouTube: Morihei Ueshiba (O-Sensei) in 1968

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Well ukemi that fits into nage's technique so perfectly that nage cannot tell that uke is actually guiding themselves through the ukemi is absolutely what I would call perfect martial technique. Might be my Shinkage ryu training influencing my thinking there.
May be you talking here about very high level of practice, but for the beginners with less than 10 years of ukemi, I find it misleading and counterproductive. The reason is a change in the general focus of practice. If your objective is to fit into nage technique, you will do it regardless what nage is doing, isn't it? Even if his technique is not respecting martial aspects of aikido? Even if what is he doing is a complete nonsense? I can see presently quite of many people (will not list names for etiquette reason) that follow this approach and the results are disastrous from my point of view.
So this is not for me.
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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Most aikidoka I work with who come from training environments that insist on strong uke feedback are also full of themselves and very arrogant, but are also very stiff and don't really do aikido.
I expressed myself not well enough. I know a young adult who practice aikido, he is very talented, not only in body coordination but also in many other domains (like observation, art, music, literature etc). Of course he is able to do the aikido techniques instantly at very high level of correctness. What I can hear when somebody compliment him after watching him practice, his response is : Of course.
From one point of view he is right, he simply states the reality -- his technique is excellent. But from human development point of view it is very dangerous -- everything what he does is a success. So he never gets constructive negative feedback. Also because his parents are doing everything to make painless to develop his talents. So he is living in kind of illusion, and developing a conviction that his every move is right. Than one day something does seriously wrong -- he has not mechanism to deal with such situation. Usual reaction is to reject the reality to maintain his comfortable life….so he can't learn from difficult situation and provide correct solutions.

That's why in judo they introduced sparring in the end of XIX century. This is a simple mechanism to test what you learned in cooperative way in kata and to develop automatic body answer every time you are facing a difficulty.

In aikido we don't have sparring, if nage never face difficulty, he will not have any answer for difficulty, being it physical or non-physical.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 08-21-2014, 02:32 PM   #52
Cliff Judge
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Re: YouTube: Morihei Ueshiba (O-Sensei) in 1968

I guess my main point is that the skill of being able to "ride" nage's technique such that you give yourself to the technique, but retain control of your fall, is one of the most valuable skills Aikido training can offer.

I think the mindset that uke's job is to challenge or test nage's technique is counterproductive to developing that skill. Certainly, weak attacks that are uncommitted, and a sort of "falling away" from an unconnected nage can be counterproductive too.

About this arrogant student - is his technique actually very good? If it is then, well, that sucks for him that he has such a challenge developing humility. I'd be more concerned if he tended to resist everyone else's technique while insisting that his always work no matter what. That's a bigger concern for me - the person who refuses to let anyone else's technique work, while not caring what his partner's boundaries are when it is his turn to be nage, because he must always be correct. So he resorts to use of muscle and harder atemi than his uke may be comfortable with. This is the kind of personality I worry about in high-resistance environments.
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Old 08-21-2014, 02:50 PM   #53
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: YouTube: Morihei Ueshiba (O-Sensei) in 1968

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
May be you talking here about very high level of practice, but for the beginners with less than 10 years of ukemi, I find it misleading and counterproductive. The reason is a change in the general focus of practice. If your objective is to fit into nage technique, you will do it regardless what nage is doing, isn't it? Even if his technique is not respecting martial aspects of aikido? Even if what is he doing is a complete nonsense? I can see presently quite of many people (will not list names for etiquette reason) that follow this approach and the results are disastrous from my point of view.
So this is not for me.

I expressed myself not well enough. I know a young adult who practice aikido, he is very talented, not only in body coordination but also in many other domains (like observation, art, music, literature etc). Of course he is able to do the aikido techniques instantly at very high level of correctness. What I can hear when somebody compliment him after watching him practice, his response is : Of course.
From one point of view he is right, he simply states the reality -- his technique is excellent. But from human development point of view it is very dangerous -- everything what he does is a success. So he never gets constructive negative feedback. Also because his parents are doing everything to make painless to develop his talents. So he is living in kind of illusion, and developing a conviction that his every move is right. Than one day something does seriously wrong -- he has not mechanism to deal with such situation. Usual reaction is to reject the reality to maintain his comfortable life….so he can't learn from difficult situation and provide correct solutions.

That's why in judo they introduced sparring in the end of XIX century. This is a simple mechanism to test what you learned in cooperative way in kata and to develop automatic body answer every time you are facing a difficulty.

In aikido we don't have sparring, if nage never face difficulty, he will not have any answer for difficulty, being it physical or non-physical.
Dear Mr S,
Just because your young guy appears to be a hotshot now does not mean he will carry on being a hotshot.He might well run into someone who gives him a hard time.The guy does seem from your writing to be a tad egotistical.Maybe he needs to be taken down a peg, not in a bad way , but more to stop the guy from being big headed.He perhaps needs to acquire some humility.Modesty does not appear to be his strong point methinks. Cheers, Joe.
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