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Old 03-20-2005, 12:04 PM   #26
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote:
What has her experience been.? Has she ever been attacked?
Instead of attempting to change the issue being discussed into an emotional venue, why not rebutt the points related to Aikido and actual self-defense? If Aikido is helpful to self-defense (in relation to other martial arts), surely you can discuss the merits? Perhaps some discussions of how you have used Aikido in actual self-defense, etc.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 03-20-2005, 12:34 PM   #27
Bodhi
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Hi Mary

As far as any type of experience, she has only done the model mugging thing.
Yes she has been attacked, before i met her some really bad things happened.
She came to me asking what i thought of aikido and i told her what i knew. I then suggested that we check out some schools and let her get an idea for herself. Before i would ever teach her anything i wanted her to know what was available so she might feel confortable with her own decision.
As far as my opinion of aikido, i think its great for certain things! As im sure you know, it is not the style that makes the person, but how that person trains. I left the idea of styles behind long ago in real world situations when i found out that knowledge in and of itself was not true power. The ability to apply your knowledge, especially under pressure, is what really mattered.

Jason
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Old 03-20-2005, 01:38 PM   #28
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

I agree.....
Maybe Aikido training supplemented with your stuff would be great for her. You sound like you have have some good stuff to share.
Mary
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Old 03-20-2005, 02:27 PM   #29
giriasis
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Quote:
TRAIN WITH PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE, that means begin slow just like you would with any exercize program, then add, get confortable with that, then add some more, and so on. A real attacker is going to resist your efforts 100%. If you want to learn how to fight, you have to practice fighting against someone who is fighting back. Progressive resistance allows you to get confortable with this.
Quite a few aikido schools, do this. I know its done in my school. When you first start the uke will lead you through the technique as you get more advanced then you get more resistance. It's a common way to practice in aikido.

Of course what is being taught in an aikido dojo is -- aikido -- not "street self-defense" so, yes, it will be limited to a budo training paradigm. My instructor often empahsizes the principles behind a technique such as getting off the line of attack, learning to off-balance your opponent, and moving throught their center to effect the throw/ pin. It's not about learning a wealth of techniques such as you do "this" in "X" situation and "that" in "Y" situation, but about learning the principles behind each technique. I believe the ki exercises are intended to teach such principles.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 03-20-2005, 06:17 PM   #30
kironin
 
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Kathey Ferland Sensei of the Austin, TX Ki Society School
is barely over 5 feet. She is a 4th dan in Ki-Aikido.
Her reasons changed over time...
http://www.akac.org/welcome.html

many of her students tower over her.

I think given the mixture of wants orginally described, the Ki Society group will be a good fit.

best regards

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Old 03-20-2005, 06:47 PM   #31
kironin
 
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Quote:
Jason Potenza wrote:
Hello Everyone!
It was an advanced class this particular night, i dont think i saw anyone below black belt level. ....

... These things have always appealed to me in any of the arts, however it was my fiances first introduction to anything of this sort, she really liked it!

... We both noticed right away that the attackers would just give up their attack and let the defender continue with what they were doing.

My assumption is that most likely you were watching the class and not participating ?

If she really liked it, whatever she does, she is more likely to practice on a regular basis and that is more likely to go further in
developing self-defense skills than if you push her in to what you feel is necesary and she doesn't stick with it.

As to the rest of what you said starting with the last sentence above, you lost me because that is not how we practice.

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Old 03-20-2005, 07:13 PM   #32
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Hi Jason,

Quote:
Jason Potenza wrote:
BUT IF ONE OF YOUR GOALS IS TO BE BETTER PREPARED FOR A REAL LIFE PHYSICAL ATTACK then you had better adjust your training methods accordingly. TRAIN WITH PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE, that means begin slow just like you would with any exercize program, then add, get confortable with that, then add some more, and so on. A real attacker is going to resist your efforts 100%. If you want to learn how to fight, you have to practice fighting against someone who is fighting back. Progressive resistance allows you to get confortable with this. Try and train to be prepared for many different situations. Have each student actually train in as many self-defense scenarios as possible so that if he or she gets into a bad situation they already have experience in that particular situation. Kicking, punching, grappling, ground, multiple opponets, weapons. Different enviroments such as outdoor/ indoor, closed spaces,up against a wall or car, sitting, standing, unlevel ground, in water, slippery surfaces, from a vehicle, in the daytime, in the night, blind folded, with and without shoes etc. Really try to highten your senses so you feel more confortable in different areas. Is an attacker in the street going to resist you? Absolutely. If you don't practice with resistance in a variety of scenerios then you won't be able to handle the situation. I will say it again, If you want to learn how to fight, you must practice fighting against someone who is fighting back.
Well said.

It often shocks me how many martial artists in general and Aikido folks in particular have very interesting (yet delusional) ideas of what constitutes effective self defence training. Your post regarding training and experiences rang true in so many ways for me. I am happy your friend (fiancee?) also had the personal ability to recognise what would work realistically for her as against what could not, at least on a basic level. It would be great to keep this sort of honesty about practicality throughout her training.

Dealing with resistance effectively is key to being able to apply Aikido effectively outside of the dojo against real aggression. I would even say, not just resistance training as in a generally cooperative Uke standing there and trying to tense or shut down a technique alone, but instead active resistance from one's partner in the form of seriously and aggressively trying to shut down the technique while constantly counterattacking (with serious, targeted attacks) and trying to gain the upper hand. Basically what we refer in our system as randori (seizing chaos).

I think the training in the Ki school (similar to your experience with Yoga and meditation in your training) will be great for everything you initially highlighted except the self defence aspect. I think from the experience you had at the Ki Society dojo the answer for your finacee's self defence training may be a bit obvious. It sounds like you have a vast pool of knowledge in that area.

Just remember, not all of Aikido practices the way you experienced though.

Just my 2 cents.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 03-20-2005, 07:41 PM   #33
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

In one of my Intro to Aikido classes a Japanese woman who was very tiny kept nodding at me when I was talking about ki. After the class she came up to me with her friend to tell me about an experience she had.

When she was 13 she had to ride the train to school in Tokyo....many times men groped her underneath her skirt. She told her mom about it and her mom blamed her because her skirt was too short. However, she knew it was not her fault. She talked it over with her friends and they told her to get a hat pin and it anyone touched her to stick them with her hat pin.. She very definitely told me that after she made the decision to defend herself she was never groped again and she never had to use her hat pin. Ki can be very powerful and it manifests itself in many different forms.

Mary
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:23 PM   #34
Bodhi
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Cool story Mary! There is no doubt that we project great energy with only our intentions. I know in my old neighborhood certain people always seemed to be targets and certain people always seemed to be left alone. Some of the ones that were left alone i knew personally, they couldnt fight a lick, but there is no doubt in my mind they would die before they ever let someone abuse them in any way. There was a "feel" about them, and just the intention that they projected sent off a vibe that we all heard loud and clear.

J
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Old 03-21-2005, 10:08 AM   #35
Janet Rosen
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Besides, you earlier stated that you weigh 175 pounds... that might be why you haven't been attacked
Women of all shapes, sizes and ages are attacked.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 03-21-2005, 10:20 AM   #36
Mike Sigman
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
Women of all shapes, sizes and ages are attacked.
Reminds me of the fact that we lose a few women and teenage boys to mountain lions occasionally here in Colorado. They don't attack large females and normal-sized males. It's a size thing and the attendant risks associated with picking a fight with someone who might damage you.

Mike
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:30 AM   #37
Beard of Chuck Norris
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Wink Re: Aikido for a small woman

Quote:
Jason Potenza wrote:
Hello everyone.

My question is, would Aikido, specifically ki Society Aikido, be something a small statured woman could feel confident in and actually use to defend herself not to mention get good instruction in meditation, movement awareness, health/healing etc? I have always been more involved in the combat oriented systems so i am at a loss when it comes to anything other than what i have first hand experience with. My fiance is looking for a martial art and has recently become interested in the ki Society, i have experience in other arts and am not able to answer her questions pertaining to Aikido. I have met several instructors though and worked with Aikido students and teachers alike but my take on this art is that it is not the best for self defense until you get to the higher ranks. Even then you should have some sort of cross training not to mention a mindset and willingness to deal with a violent attack, is this correct? All in all i have tried to explain to her what i have found with first hand personal experience but thats just me, someone else may have something totally different to offer. I think Aikido would be great for her as far as mind body cordination, movement awareness etc but what do you all think as far as her using it in a self defense situation? Would any of you recommend it to your wives, daughters, sisters, moms etc? Any responses would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. She just told me we are going to check out a KI Society class tonite so ill let you all know how it goes!
Aikido was developed by a very small man, even by Japanese standards. Then again I am 6'3" and I cope ok.
I think i agree with you that the "effectiveness" of aikido doesn't really become apparent until after lots of practice (higher grades), but does anything? I don't think so. I certainly would think twice about applying an aikido technique on an attacker; 1 because i'd probably screw it up and 2 would feel like i'm abusing it. I'd go for the old parle approach, so perhaps some course in diplomacy would be good for self defence
I would totally recommend aikido to all females i know, and indeed everybody, of course there are some exceptions. Tis the way of harmony after all, which is nice.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:48 AM   #38
DonMagee
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

I think aikido is a great art and I encourage you to get her into it. I've been trying to get my wife back into aikido for some time (she quit after getting a shoulder injury and has not wanted to come back fearing more injury). However, I really have to stress that for any female wishing to learn self defense that they study ground fighting. Most men try to grapple with women intead of hit them. A rapist is going to try to pin a woman to the ground. A solid knowedge of how to move on the ground and how ground fighting works could save her life. Aikido will do a lot to improve her life, and that will go a long way to preventing confrontation. I still would not discount some good ground fighting training though. A lot of aiki priciples apply on the ground as well. So she could learn both.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:58 AM   #39
dps
 
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Quote:
Jason Potenza wrote:
Hello everyone.

My question is, would Aikido, specifically ki Society Aikido, be something a small statured woman could feel confident in and actually use to defend herself not to mention get good instruction in meditation, movement awareness, health/healing etc?

but what do you all think as far as her using it in a self defense situation?

Would any of you recommend it to your wives, daughters, sisters, moms etc?
Aikido is excellent as a foundation on which to build on for self defense, meditation, movement awareness, health/healing .

Techniques in Aikido can take a long time to learn because you are learning how to coordinate your mind with your body. Teach some of the simpler techniques you know to her for her to use until she is proficient with the Aikido techniques.

My ten year old daughter is taking Aikido and I am trying to get my wife back into Aikido after being out of it for sixteen years.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:00 AM   #40
Mato-san
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Re: Aikido for a small woman

Our dojo here in Japan was affiliated with ki no kenkyukai for 13 years or so, our instructor a shihan and rouned in other styles. Now we have broken away from ki no kenkyukai so sensei runs his own show, a class that is ki driven for women children elderly and others, another class a little harder and yet again another somewhat hhhhharder. I attend all classes and I must say the most painful and effective nikkyo I have ever felt was and still is from a woman 5 foot tall skinny as a rake and to look at her you would think she could not fight her way out of a wet paper bag.Mentally challenged kids with full poer shihonage. Then In contrast with the waza of the police officers I train with, I would have to say that Ki aikido done well is really effective. All Aikido done well is effective.

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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