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Old 03-12-2018, 02:49 PM   #76
RonRagusa
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Re: AIKIDO - The way that doesn't work! - The Series

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
The problem is that either you can manifest aiki (albeit the quality can vary), or you can't.
I think there's a quantitative component involved and that the manifestation of aiki isn't binary (can or can't).

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Everyone with whom I have worked out who had aiki felt materially different. Even within a dojo, you can feel the difference between students training in IP and students who are not.
Agree. The differences are obvious. Students who are manifesting aiki move and feel differently from those who are mechanically practicing technique.

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
This threads connects a couple of issues because I think at its base level, we recognize the limitations of aikido waza.
Like I said earlier, waza isn't the engine, it's the tool that focuses and applies the power generated by the engine. I think students, if not given instruction in mind/body coordination at an early stage of their study, see technique as an end in and of itself. That being said, Aikido techniques are excellent tools for learning the application of aiki due to the nature of their forms. It's one of the things that sets Aikido apart from other arts in which the mastering of technique is the primary focus.

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Jon Reading wrote: View Post
The difference is that Ueshiba was moving with full body connection (i.e. aiki) and eventually the student body did not possess that skill. The [successful] outcome of the movement could be contrived and that contrivance was the evolution of aikido. We now have this period of time where other martial arts can test our stuff and we become limited to the conditions of the contrivance. I don't like "right" or "wrong", because to each his own. But, we should not ignore this gap.
I think Ueshiba M purposely held back teaching aiki skills as an integral part of Aikido training because he wanted his students to discover for themselves the nature of aiki and their own Aikido. But that's just speculation on my part.

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, AIKIDO - The way that doesn't work! - The Series, I have to agree with Lenny Sly; for what he's looking to do, Aikido doesn't work. It's not because Aikido is lacking though, it's more likely that what he wants Aikido to be is something it was never designed to be.

Ron

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Old 03-12-2018, 03:27 PM   #77
MrIggy
Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: AIKIDO - The way that doesn't work! - The Series

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
.

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, AIKIDO - The way that doesn't work! - The Series, I have to agree with Lenny Sly; for what he's looking to do, Aikido doesn't work. It's not because Aikido is lacking though, it's more likely that what he wants Aikido to be is something it was never designed to be.

Ron
Meaning what? It was never meant to be a "functional" martial art just with the techniques and without the knowledge of Aiki? You do realize that there are people claiming that Daito ryu/Aikido techniques are "obsolete", or plain and simple useless even with Aiki, that mma is the only "real deal" and that the "connective body" training should be used in that particular fashion. Not to mention all the other "combatives" nonsense I've bee hearing people talk about without having an actual clue about what combatives are.

Last edited by MrIggy : 03-12-2018 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:04 PM   #78
RonRagusa
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
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Re: AIKIDO - The way that doesn't work! - The Series

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Meaning what? It was never meant to be a "functional" martial art just with the techniques and without the knowledge of Aiki?
Yes.

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
You do realize that there are people claiming that Daito ryu/Aikido techniques are "obsolete", or plain and simple useless even with Aiki,
Yes.

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
that mma is the only "real deal" and that the "connective body" training should be used in that particular fashion.
Performance in many activities is enhanced with aiki.

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Not to mention all the other "combatives" nonsense I've bee hearing people talk about without having an actual clue about what combatives are.
Since I'm not interested in combatives I don't pay any attention to that stuff.

Ron

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Old 03-13-2018, 04:02 AM   #79
MrIggy
Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 333
Serbia
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Re: AIKIDO - The way that doesn't work! - The Series

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post

Performance in many activities is enhanced with aiki.
So I heard, but I'm currently interested in the martial activities.

Quote:
Since I'm not interested in combatives I don't pay any attention to that stuff.

Ron
So far I can say that's the best approach.
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