Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Language

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #1
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
United_States
Offline
When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Being a non-Japanese speaking person, I really wouldn't know where to start looking for this, but I'm very curious. When did the word "Aiki" first appear in usage in the Japanese language, and in what context?

I have seen people write that "Aiki no jutsu" appears as early as teh 12th century. I have also heard that Takeda Sokaku basically came up with the word to describe what he was doing. Are there any old records that show early usage of the word? Has it only been used to relate to martial arts?

I was speaking with a friend of mine who has a degree Chinese literature. He told me that as far as he knows, the combination of and are not common in old Chinese literature, and thinks it must be the advent of the Japanese.

Anyways, I'm interested in some scholarly answers, we have all "heard this" and "heard that" but how early can the combination of those Kana be found, in what contexts and what source's can be sited? Thanks!

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 08:52 PM   #2
Ellis Amdur
 
Ellis Amdur's Avatar
Location: Seattle
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 934
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Chris - the oldest extant densho of Toda-ha Buko-ryu dates back to the mid-1800's. We have a set entitled 鏁鎌合気之事 Kusarigama Aiki no Koto. It is very possible that the name is older, because this was from the 14th generation of the ryu. But it's also possible that the school was a family tradition, previously, taught by word-of-mouth, without documentation.
Ellis Amdur

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 10:06 PM   #3
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Chris - the oldest extant densho of Toda-ha Buko-ryu dates back to the mid-1800's. We have a set entitled 鏁鎌合気之事 Kusarigama Aiki no Koto. It is very possible that the name is older, because this was from the 14th generation of the ryu. But it's also possible that the school was a family tradition, previously, taught by word-of-mouth, without documentation.
Ellis Amdur
I can't recall the source, but I read somewhere that the original usage was in a text on swordsmanship and it did not imply a superior power at all, but more like a stalemate situation.

Does that sound at all familiar?

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 10:24 PM   #4
Eric in Denver
Dojo: Ronin
Location: CO
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 103
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Karl Friday's book on Kashima Shinryu "Legacies of the Sword" talks about aiki v kiai. However, I am don't remember if he states any dates in relation to it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 10:37 PM   #5
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
I can't recall the source, but I read somewhere that the original usage was in a text on swordsmanship and it did not imply a superior power at all, but more like a stalemate situation.

Does that sound at all familiar?

Thanks.

David
Hi David;

From the Shishida/Nariyama book where they talk about the historical Aiki
"The examples of Aiki include: "A situation in which two people stand facing each other", "When facing an enemy, this gets to the point of Aiki, waiting and seeing how one beats the other", "It is important to avoid fighting directly with an opponent's ki"."

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 10:55 PM   #6
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Hi David;

From the Shishida/Nariyama book where they talk about the historical Aiki
"The examples of Aiki include: "A situation in which two people stand facing each other", "When facing an enemy, this gets to the point of Aiki, waiting and seeing how one beats the other", "It is important to avoid fighting directly with an opponent's ki"."
This was actually from an older source. I think it was presented as the first usage of 'aiki' in a Japanese document.

Too bad I don't know where I saw that, but it was not considered a favorable situation, as I recall.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 11:01 PM   #7
Josh Lerner
 
Josh Lerner's Avatar
Location: Renton, WA
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 80
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Being a non-Japanese speaking person, I really wouldn't know where to start looking for this, but I'm very curious. When did the word "Aiki" first appear in usage in the Japanese language, and in what context?

I have seen people write that "Aiki no jutsu" appears as early as teh 12th century. I have also heard that Takeda Sokaku basically came up with the word to describe what he was doing. Are there any old records that show early usage of the word? Has it only been used to relate to martial arts?

I was speaking with a friend of mine who has a degree Chinese literature. He told me that as far as he knows, the combination of and are not common in old Chinese literature, and thinks it must be the advent of the Japanese.

Anyways, I'm interested in some scholarly answers, we have all "heard this" and "heard that" but how early can the combination of those Kana be found, in what contexts and what source's can be sited? Thanks!
Hi Chris,

I've posted this here before, and it has nothing to do with martial arts, but the earliest known useage of the compound "aiki" in Chinese that I am aware of is in early Daoist texts that use the term to refer to parts of religious rituals that involve sexual intercourse. I'm not sure on dates, but I think the term shows up in the Mawangdui texts from the 2nd century BC, or at the latest in some later Han dynasty texts from the 1st or 2nd century AD. The meaning being "to join the qi".

Many Daoist medical practices, including some sexual practices, were transmitted to Japan via a 10th century text known as the Ishinpō. I'm not sure if that exact term is in that text, though.

For What It's Worth.

Josh
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 11:14 PM   #8
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
This was actually from an older source. I think it was presented as the first usage of 'aiki' in a Japanese document.

Too bad I don't know where I saw that, but it was not considered a favorable situation, as I recall.
Well they were talking about historical definitions and I think maybe they give the source or at least Shishida gave it somewhere in another article. He is a bit of a budo historian. I'll check later.

Stalemate is always an unfavorable situation but you can see how that would be called harmonized energy. I also seem to recall the caveat that the to in stalemate were masters of their art.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 11:22 PM   #9
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Some great examples, thanks Ellis, Peter, and Josh for some very good references.

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 11:58 PM   #10
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Well they were talking about historical definitions and I think maybe they give the source or at least Shishida gave it somewhere in another article. He is a bit of a budo historian. I'll check later.

Stalemate is always an unfavorable situation but you can see how that would be called harmonized energy. I also seem to recall the caveat that the to in stalemate were masters of their art.
Better stale than dead, huh?

Currently watching Yojimbo and it's put me in that mood. What a great movie.

So you're still in Japan, are you?

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 01:24 AM   #11
Peter Goldsbury
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,308
Japan
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Well they were talking about historical definitions and I think maybe they give the source or at least Shishida gave it somewhere in another article. He is a bit of a budo historian. I'll check later.

Stalemate is always an unfavorable situation but you can see how that would be called harmonized energy. I also seem to recall the caveat that the to in stalemate were masters of their art.
Shishida discusses aiki on pp. 311 - 313 of his book 武道の教育力. There was an earlier discussion on aiki where I quoted the whole passage. Josh Reyer translated it.

PAG

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 02:11 AM   #12
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Better stale than dead, huh?
So true.

Quote:
Currently watching Yojimbo and it's put me in that mood. What a great movie.
Also true.

Quote:
So you're still in Japan, are you?
Not quite. Living in Shanghai and not getting back to Japan nearly enough. Just lazy in changing my profile. Actually may be making a move real soon but the other way. Work VISA is in the system.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 02:39 AM   #13
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Shishida discusses aiki on pp. 311 - 313 of his book 武道の教育力. There was an earlier discussion on aiki where I quoted the whole passage. Josh Reyer translated it.

PAG
And after some wonderfully inventive searching I find

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...t=18203&page=6

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:54 AM   #14
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Japan
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Josh Lerner wrote: View Post
I've posted this here before, and it has nothing to do with martial arts, but the earliest known useage of the compound "aiki" in Chinese that I am aware of is in early Daoist texts that use the term to refer to parts of religious rituals that involve sexual intercourse.
Let me guess - to be any good at those rituals involved many many hours of intense solo training, and once you get your hands on high-ranking practitioners you realize most of them move like Tom, Dick, or Harry?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 08:08 AM   #15
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
And after some wonderfully inventive searching I find

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...t=18203&page=6
I think that's it.

Lengthy and detailed and really worthy of very careful reading because it's serious discussion among knowledgeable people, which is where I always get lost..



Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 08:22 AM   #16
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Let me guess - to be any good at those rituals involved many many hours of intense solo training, and once you get your hands on high-ranking practitioners you realize most of them move like Tom, Dick, or Harry?
depends on how you did solo training. some solo training help you build strength and stamina, some are just premature. and i believed Dick moved quite different than Tom and Harry. i believed Tom and Harry dropped the balls in their solo practices.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 09:14 AM   #17
Patrick Hutchinson
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 95
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

But we have it from a good authority that solo training does not give you hairs on the palms of your hands.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:11 AM   #18
Scott Harrington
Location: Wilmington, De
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 86
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Regarding the phrase "aiki" or "aiki no jutsu" and it‘s introduction to the vocabulary of usage in martial arts, it will certainly take someone well versed in the Japanese language to do the research.

The earliest English reference I am aware of is the 1912 book,"The Fighting spirit of Japan" by E.J. Harrison where "aiki" is mentioned several times, and associated with the Shinden Isshin ryu.

In the latest DVD by Kondo Katsuyuki, current Headmaster of the main-line Daito-ryu, he mentions the phrase "aiki" is written about in a book by Sato (kyoju-dairi) called "Japanese Spirit" which was written a few years after Sato had begun his training in Daito ryu (1902.)

There is a Japanese publication written in 1892 (and later reprints) regarding "Aiki" and various aspects of training in this esoteric martial art.

As to an even earlier reference that can be documented of "aiki no jutsu", it pops up in a semi-novelization of the famous swordsman Miyamoto Musashi in 1887. The kanji for "ki" is an out-dated one - 氣.

So, the term "aiki" and its understanding in a martial way were already mainstreamed by the late 1880's.

On a personal note, I am not a believer that Onisaburo Deguchi convinced Takeda Sokaku or Ueshiba Morihei to add the term "Aiki to the Daito-ryu jujutsu name. Further research is needed.

Scott Harrington
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:18 AM   #19
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Japan
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Quote:
Scott Harrington wrote: View Post
As to an even earlier reference that can be documented of "aiki no jutsu", it pops up in a semi-novelization of the famous swordsman Miyamoto Musashi in 1887. The kanji for "ki" is an out-dated one - æ°£.
It might be good to clarify that "out-dated" in this case simply means they simplified the character when they standardized the kanji in the 20th century. That's the "real" character for ki, there, its not like an alternate, or something that might have some other reading.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:47 AM   #20
Scott Harrington
Location: Wilmington, De
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 86
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Good point Cliff, the turn of the century kanji (19th to 20th) were much more 'difficult' and chinese-like, making documents 60 to 70 years hard for current native reader - not impossible, just 'difficult.'

Another phrase pops up - 合氣術 which translates as "Aiki technique or skill." This is a 1920 reference.

Scott Harrington

"A translator, a translator, My aiki for a translator."
King Richard III
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:06 PM   #21
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
United_States
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Thanks for all the references, I've got some afternoon reading now!

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:29 PM   #22
Janet Rosen
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
Re: When did the word "Aiki" first appear?

Love Aikiweb!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yoshinkan and "aiki" MM Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 105 05-14-2010 12:59 PM
Your Life in Aikido in 2009 in One Word akiy General 76 01-15-2010 08:01 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 14 Peter Goldsbury Columns 38 07-31-2009 11:19 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 12 Peter Goldsbury Columns 32 05-16-2009 06:05 PM
Word explanations JJF Announcements & Feedback 4 06-19-2002 04:16 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:49 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate