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Old 05-04-2010, 03:44 PM   #26
Walter Martindale
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Re: Aiki vs Martial or Blend

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
Attended a seminar with Ikeda Sensei this weekend. Two things he said that stood out.
(actually he said lots of things that stood out but these two pertain to this discussion.)

1) Martial arts don't work. No Martial arts work. Not until you make it a part of you. When you can do the martial art as easily as you breath and with just as much thought and effort, then it will work.

My take: its gonna be an awful lot of years of training before my aikido really works.

2) Experienced martial artists who have reached the above stage... don't get in fights. They just don't.
re: 1)... relates to the 10,000 hours of deliberate practice required to master just about anything. Let's see. 4 hours per week, how many years? Mastery is approached in a rather asymptotic fashion, steep learning curve during the first few hundred hours, gradually decreasing slope of the learning curve as the magic 10,000 hours is approached...

Walter
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:21 PM   #27
Aiki1
 
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Dojo: ACE Aikido
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Re: Aiki vs Martial or Blend

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
I don't even explicitly disagree with this statement per say, I was just wondering what you base this assumption on?
In my original post, I wasn't addressing the practical issue per se, I was making a distinction between Aikido as an art, and simply learning techniques that are in the "Aikido syllabus" and calling that "Aikido." Practicality is an aspect of that overall discussion at some level, I suppose, but I personally wasn't going there. That's why I agreed with the notion of having to define Aikido in the first place, which is not easy to do for any number of reasons, and even more difficult to agree on.

Just wanted to be clear because of the quoting etc. going on.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:24 PM   #28
lbb
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Re: Aiki vs Martial or Blend

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Tell you what... You stick with your "Aikido" and I'll stick with mine...
Amen to that.

Show me a hundred aikidoka and I'll show you 99 fundamentalists...
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:36 AM   #29
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: Aiki vs Martial or Blend

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
I don't even explicitly disagree with this statement per say, I was just wondering what you base this assumption on?
I base it on the fact that what many people are practicing wouldn't work in a real self defense situation and it doesn't even work within the confines of how it is being done in the dojo. It's mostly aerobics, imho.

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Old 05-05-2010, 09:34 PM   #30
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aiki vs Martial or Blend

I can tell you from my experiences in our dojo that we don't practice aerobics. That said, you have a select few folks that understand different aspects of what is on the spectrum of aikido.

Some folks have a better understanding of the combative/jiu jitsu nature of the art, the timing, entries, when/where to apply what to make it work.

Others have a good understanding of the technical aspects of the waza.

Some have both.

Some students have no clue what they are doing.

And we have folks everywhere on the spectrum

I think this is normal. In all cases I'd say most if not all our students are authentic and honest in what they are doing there, they just simply don't have the experience to undestand completely what the totality of the art is and what it should and can be.

That is reasonable I think as most of us are not professional warriors nor have the time, need or inclination to practice things to the level necessary to be "complete".

I would have agreed with the aerobic assessment when I first started as that was my "freshman" assessment of the situation.

With a few years of experience under my belt, and a few more as a "professional" in this field, my opinions I think are a little more complex and I think in many cases the "aerobic judgement" is an oversimplification about what is really going on in alot of dojos.

Of course, if your goals are not being met, there are other arts/methods that will train the things you want to train.

I'll be the first to tell you that Aikido is not the only methodology of training martially I rely on.

However, again, I also don't think that the aerobic judgement is completely fair or accurate either simply because what we do in the aikido dojo may not be an efficient delivery mechanism for "effectiveness", which again, we need to define for the particular problem set, or situation we are focusing on.

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Old 05-06-2010, 01:36 AM   #31
Aiki1
 
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Re: Aiki vs Martial or Blend

For me there are, fundamentally at least, four broad levels in the spectrum of learning and knowledge in Aikido.

Content

- techniques, technical understanding, physicality etc.

Process

- position, movement, flow, strategy etc.

Energetics

- Ki, musubi (connection), subtle Aiki (a range of internal and external elements), and what we term Kinesthetic Invisibility (not giving any reference to the attacker such that there is anything to react to or counter)

Spirituality

- surrender, guidance, higher experience

These run from the least to the most subtle, from the seen to the unseen, from easiest to most challenging to learn and grasp. As one moves from the first stage forward, one must find someone to induct them into the experience and understanding of that level. Sometimes that's the same person and/or circumstance, sometimes not. Knowledge of all four levels brings a balance of understanding and skill, from the martial to the sublime.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
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