Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Foreign Language Aikido Discussions > French

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-28-2021, 06:44 AM   #1
NTT
 
NTT's Avatar
Dojo: Ringenkai
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 50
France
Offline
Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

Résumant 50 ans d'arts martiaux, "Le voyage d'un maître, entre Ciel et Terre" raconte le voyage d'un maître d'Aïkido, Noro Masamichi senseï, vers la France, celui d'une discipline japonaise vers ses élèves français et le mien dans cet univers gestuel et spirituel.
Les cartons ont été reçus vendredi 26/11 et depuis je fais dans l'expédition de livre ! 😀
Cliquez ici : https://levoyagedunmaitre.fr/
N'hésitez pas à partager vos commentaires de lecture.

Nguyen Thanh Thien
Aikido Ringenkai and Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu kenjutsu
Aikido Ringenkai in French and author of "Le voyage d'un maître" in French
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2021, 04:40 AM   #2
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 657
England
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

It is good to see Noro Sensei being remembered in your writings, I thank you for that.

I remember Noro Sensei very well, I was uke to him many times from his early visits to the UK from 1961. I believe many students today recognise Noro for his flowing Kinomichi style, I am not sure if he still called it Aikido ?
I believe Noro had a serious car accident in France and was unable to continue his powerful style of Aikido, hence the development of Kinoimichi ??
Noro's early Aikido was powerful and dynamic in his white Gi and white Hakama, we gave him the name " The White Tornado" which amused him.
Noro was unlike all the previous Japanese teachers who were very serious and unapproachable, Noro was young, he was our age, he was charismatic and entertaining. His Aikido was very powerful and totally effective. RIP Masamichi Noro Sensei.

Henry Ellis
Co-author ` British Aikido History`.
Co-author ` The Founding of JuJutsu-Judo-Aikido in the UK`.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2021, 09:06 AM   #3
NTT
 
NTT's Avatar
Dojo: Ringenkai
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 50
France
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

I know well the deep impression Norro sensei left on his English students. I meet him in 1980 at the time when he switched from Aikido to Kinomichi. It was indeed still very dynamic, yet with a softness in progress.On the mat was Daniel Martin who later became student of Tamura sensei and Saito sensei who awarded him 6th dan Iwama Ryu. Also there was Regis Borel who was contemporary with Michel Becard sensei and Daniel Toutain sensei who became student of Saito sensei. He recieved 6th Dan Aikikai from Ueshiba Moriteru. That is to point out the dynamic range of the technics in those days. What changed was the will to integrate the yin to the yang on display on the mat.
The general opinion is that his accident forced him to soften his practice. I do not share this opinion. I studied in his dojo although I had no accident to explain why coming from Judo, going into Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu kenjutsu and Chen Taichi, I did a softer Aikido. I followed Noro sensei in his search for a more balanced practice, doing technics from a yin extreme point to a yang extreme point. That did not mean staying motionless in the middle. Of course, many fled the new yin direction because it is truly difficult to work both extremes.
In his words, he never stopped studying Aikido. He repeatedly said on the mat that his art started when he first saw the art of Ueshiba Morihei sensei. I believe he still liked the yang aspect but wished to see the yin within the yang and opposite. One can see such a direction in the practice of Asai sensei, his close friend who at least considered Noro sensei as his sempai.
I am truly happy to hear how well the British Aikidoka remember Noro sensei. I enjoy the video you post in memory of those days.
Odyle Noro, his wife, told me the other day about an English Aikidoka who was close to Noro sensei.
My book is a story I tell in my own words (my French is a teeny-weeny bit better than my English ), it is an analysis of his work and a knitting of references to the Oriental way of thinking, of Chinese Classics and else.
In Noro's softness, in his grip, I could feel the power he demonstrated before. He just refused to show more of it. He wanted us to pay attention to the yin side of Aikido, not to forget the yang side of the mountain. But I could feel how it was boiling in his veins. He was still quick tempered!
My hope is an Aikido ranging from one extreme to the other, forgetting none.

Nguyen Thanh Thien
Aikido Ringenkai and Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu kenjutsu
Aikido Ringenkai in French and author of "Le voyage d'un maître" in French
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2021, 01:40 PM   #4
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 657
England
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

Thank you for your reply.
Please give my kind regards to Madam Noro, tell her Noro Sensei is still highly respected and thought of in the UK.

I first met Noro Sensei when he came to the UK in 1961. I met him on the morning of the first seminar at the home of Ken Williams Sensei the `National Coach of the British Aikido Council ` . KW introduced me as his assistant. After the introduction and some time chatting, KW told Noro that I had many lady friends and he asked about one in particular named Sandy, I said I had just that morning received a letter from her as she was upset that I had ended the relationship, I foolishly said I had the letter in my pocket, both KW and Noro asked to read it, Noro repeated several times a line from the letter “please tell me this is not the end ?” nothing more was said.
That morning the `Hut Dojo` was packed to the rafters with students, during the first session Noro called me out for Shihonage, as he took me the pain of his control was agony, he stopped half way through the technique, looked at my handsome face screwed in agony and said “ Please tell me this is not the end, this is for Sandy” and with that he slammed me in to the mat, I remember that time as if it was yesterday. Later Noro said “ Why finish with Sandy, she seems a nice girl ?” I replied “ Sensei, as Andy Allen always says `they are all nice until you marry them `.

The Hut Dojo is at the rear of an old English pub named ` The Hut ` behind the pub was a fenced compound which housed the most vicious Alsatian dog you would ever see anywhere, everyone gave it a wide berth, just getting near the fence could cost one an arm or leg, we had warned Noro of this danger.
At the end of the first day we were all in the pub having the usual beer when someone asked where Noro was, it was suggested he may have gone to the air raid shelter outside toilet. We went to look for him, maybe he had gone back to the dojo, as we went around the corner there was Noro in the dog compound sitting with the dogs head on his lap and chatting like old friends, maybe the dog understood Japanese ? . Even Bill the pub landlord didn’t trust the dog, we could never understand the connection.

Henry Ellis
Co-author ` British Aikido History `.
Co-author ` Founding of JuJutsu, Judo, Aikido in the UK `
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 02:48 AM   #5
NTT
 
NTT's Avatar
Dojo: Ringenkai
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 50
France
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

These stories have the charm of showing the sensei at a close range, kind of "off the mat". They show 2 aspects of Noro sensei: the bully amongst the Human, the angel amongst the bullies. Noro sensei was that too.
I understand you do the forms from 1 to 16 as Noro taught us in the Uk and in France. You still do the forms and not kata dori or eri dori, I believe.
We have 25 "manners" and 111 movements. Do you do those things? When did they come into Noro sensei's teaching?
Today, some go by the 25 and others the 111 as the starting point or the aim, depending on their likings. 25 manners develop the inner aspects of the technics and the 111 the applications to the 16 forms or dori.
Division prevails when to my understanding the opposite side of a technic reveals aspects not visible from the first side. Opposition is not to be rejected but explored.
I believe there is so much to study that it is good the keep in mind that there is as much on the other side of our knowledge, waiting for us to study.
Still, I did and do enjoy the explosive aspects of aikido although being older limits the time I can fly through the air!

Nguyen Thanh Thien
Aikido Ringenkai and Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu kenjutsu
Aikido Ringenkai in French and author of "Le voyage d'un maître" in French
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2021, 07:08 AM   #6
Bernd Lehnen
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 205
Germany
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

Hellis wrote:
Quote:
At the end of the first day we were all in the pub having the usual beer when someone asked where Noro was, it was suggested he may have gone to the air raid shelter outside toilet. We went to look for him, maybe he had gone back to the dojo, as we went around the corner there was Noro in the dog compound sitting with the dogs head on his lap and chatting like old friends, maybe the dog understood Japanese ? . Even Bill the pub landlord didn't trust the dog, we could never understand the connection.
This was really like him.

Quote:
Noro was unlike all the previous Japanese teachers who were very serious and unapproachable, Noro was young, he was our age, he was charismatic and entertaining. His Aikido was very powerful and totally effective.
And if anyone saw Noro and Asai work together in their prime they should immediately have understood the dictum, that there are veritable tigers in Budo, that never fight. They simply haven't got to.
They could have "seen" that aikido then was only meant for the real-ones .…

Et si quelqu'un avait vu Noro et Asai travailler ensemble à leur apogée, ils auraient dû immédiatement comprendre le dicton, qu'il existe de véritables tigres à Budo, qui ne se battent jamais. Ils n'ont tout simplement pas à le faire.
Ils auraient pu "voir" que l'aïkido n'était alors destiné qu'aux tigres parmi eux. ...

Best
Bernd

Last edited by Bernd Lehnen : 12-20-2021 at 07:19 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2021, 01:15 PM   #7
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 657
England
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

Quote:
Philippe Nguyen wrote: View Post
These stories have the charm of showing the sensei at a close range, kind of "off the mat". They show 2 aspects of Noro sensei: the bully amongst the Human, the angel amongst the bullies. Noro sensei was that too.
I understand you do the forms from 1 to 16 as Noro taught us in the Uk and in France. You still do the forms and not kata dori or eri dori, I believe.
We have 25 "manners" and 111 movements. Do you do those things? When did they come into Noro sensei's teaching?
Today, some go by the 25 and others the 111 as the starting point or the aim, depending on their likings. 25 manners develop the inner aspects of the technics and the 111 the applications to the 16 forms or dori.
Division prevails when to my understanding the opposite side of a technic reveals aspects not visible from the first side. Opposition is not to be rejected but explored.
I believe there is so much to study that it is good the keep in mind that there is as much on the other side of our knowledge, waiting for us to study.
Still, I did and do enjoy the explosive aspects of aikido although being older limits the time I can fly through the air!
Hi
In the 1950s Kenshiro Abbe Sensei taught variations of techniques by simply saying " necessary this action " there were no names for any techniques until the arrival of Mutsuro Nakazono Sensei and Masamichi Noro Sensei, I don't know if the worked out the form system together ? maybe not, it all seemed to be Noro's idea, at the time it was revolutionary , the forms were studied by all UK students for several years, as Aikido changed and different groups went their different ways, so many values changed , the form system was a casualty, we still use the form system, I see no reason to change.

Henry Ellis
Co-author: British Aikido History.
Co-author: Founding of Ju-Jutsu,Judo,Aikido in the UK,
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2022, 10:32 AM   #8
NTT
 
NTT's Avatar
Dojo: Ringenkai
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 50
France
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

Noro sensei said that in Japan 2nd form, katate dori or gyaku katate dori, was the basis, in a martial logic. When he came to Europe, he found out that people in France shook hands, right hand to right hand. He then decided that 1st form or Aihanmi Katate Dori, would become the basis.
1st and 2nd form shape the basis of all other forms in 2 respective families of techniques.
1st form would evolve into 3rd, 5th and 7th forms.
2nd would evolve into 6th and 8th forms.
4th form would be done either by 1st or 2nd form. He did not appreciate 4th form as being grabbed to the chest lit his temper to a higher degree...
I do not know if Noro sensei did those links in his first days in Europe.
I will inquire on the beginnings of the forms and manners. It is a question which did not come to my mind!

Nguyen Thanh Thien
Aikido Ringenkai and Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu kenjutsu
Aikido Ringenkai in French and author of "Le voyage d'un maître" in French
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 10:05 AM   #9
NTT
 
NTT's Avatar
Dojo: Ringenkai
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 50
France
Offline
Re: Livre sur Noro senseï, l'Aïkido et le Kinomichi

After asking Mme Noro, I had this answer: "Noro sensei did invent the forms in numbers (1 to 8 and to 16 for the grabbing with 2 hands. 1 to 4 are grabbing and 5 to 7 are atemi, 8 being a mix. My thoughts). In fact, it was some of his students who asked him to name them by numbers." He then set the forms in a certain order, a meaningful order. In those days, people were not familiar with the sound of Japanese language. Today Aihanmi and Gyaku Katate Dori may sound more familiar.

Nguyen Thanh Thien
Aikido Ringenkai and Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu kenjutsu
Aikido Ringenkai in French and author of "Le voyage d'un maître" in French
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It Had To Be Felt #66: Watahiki Yoshifumi: "A Promise to O-Sensei" Carl Thompson Columns 0 03-23-2020 08:58 PM
It Had to Be Felt #57: Saito Morihiro: "Soft Strength" Ethan Weisgard Columns 1 04-20-2017 10:25 AM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 21 Peter Goldsbury Columns 18 07-29-2012 11:52 AM
It Had to Be Felt #19: Nakazono Masahilo: A Man of Peace and Pieces Hellis Columns 1 05-19-2012 10:50 AM
Is two Days a week enough? EMelanson78 General 237 11-03-2010 10:57 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:44 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2022 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2022 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate