translation help

Hi everyone,

Im trying to translate these phrases into japanese:

1 - "hidden shadow"
2 - "secret shadow"

I've looked in different translation sites, asked different people, and got different results.

I'd like to ask our Japanese friends, how do you say these phrases properly?

my appreciation goes out in advance.

Onegaishimasu. This probably is not going to help much, but when I looked at those two phrases, it seemed to me that they would both be credible definitions of "Ura."

In gassho,
Mark

Thanks mark.

but, I'm sorry, I don't understand, what does "ura" mean?

thanks.

Rene Vencer, Jr wrote: Thanks mark. but, I'm sorry, I don't understand, what does "ura" mean? thanks.

The following was taken from Aikidojournal: URA
Back; reverse. In aikido used to refer to an opening movement or turn executed as the intial movement of a technique. See OMOTE.

Ura means the back, the hidden. For instance, in shomenuchi ikkyo ura, Nage steps behind uke and then brings uke around in a spiral to the ground.
Hope this helps.
In gassho,
Mark

Rene Vencer, Jr wrote: I've looked in different translation sites, asked different people, and got different results. I'd like to ask our Japanese friends, how do you say these phrases properly?

I think the reason you've gotten different results is that it is not such an easy question to answer (hard as that may seem to believe), and not (necessarily) because the people you asked didn't know what they were talking about. I would expect even native speakers to be slightly stumped by this (just slightly ).

The reason is because when translating into Japanese, there are two entirely different classes of possible response: a sort-of normal straightforward translation vs. a rendering as "jukugo", i.e. a Chinese-compound style word read with onyomi (if you don't know what this means, sorry, but it would take too much effort to explain). Even a kunyomi compound will work for one...

I have responded on a few different threads in the past to people who wanted to know how to say X in Japanese, and my response is usually "tell us how you want to use the translation, and we can give you a much better answer." IIRC, typically the inquisitor disappears and never follows up the thread at that point.

If you want to know the best way to translate these, let us know how you would make use of the translation.

Dave

Wow, thanks Dave!

thats a very good insight you pointed out. I really appreciate it.
I actually wanted to use the phrases as a proper noun.

You see, me and a couple of other close friends who happen to be aikidoka as well, are planning to open a dojo (with sensei blessing of course).... thing is, sensei' s japanese is very rusty, and these were some of the names we came up with to name the dojo.

We didn't choose these simply because they sounded cool, but the reason why we put the word "shadow" at the end is because we wanted to name it after the company that's sponsoring us. (Yes in english our company's name literaly means "Shadow Entertainment") The company officially owns the house that we'll turn into the dojo by next year.

I can't tell you why the othe word is secret or hidden... hehehe its something we don't want to say publicly.

either way, thats about it, we want to use the phrase as a name or as a proper noun..

thank you...!

"hidden shadow" kakureta kage 隠れた陰
"secret shadow" himitsu no kage　秘密の陰

would be a literal translation. by the way, shadow in japanese has pretty negative connotations, especially with hidden and secret. If you don't care what japanese people think, then go for it.

Sorry, but this dropped off my radar

OK, I've got your name: Aikido Hiei-kai （合気道秘影会）

"Hi" secret or hidden
"Ei" (also "kage") is shadow or silhouette

I like this kage rather than 蔭 because it carries more a connotation of the shadow of a form (as of a person, etc) rather than simply the darkness itself which is caused by a blockage of light. Also "hiei-kai" is more euphonious than "hiin-kai" (could be mistaken for "the aikido committee" - although come to think of it that's kind of a cool name too )

If you're unsure of the pronunciation, just say "he ate kai", but without the 't'

Dave

Hi Dave!

"Aikido Hiei Kai" has a great ring to it!

by the way Kai means association right?

by the way, shadow in japanese has pretty negative connotations, especially with hidden and secret.

really? thanks for the warning, I never thought of it that way...


Everyone, I really Appreciate the inputs. By January, hopefully our Dojo will be up and running. Sensei and I just need to work out some legal issues, and other necessary affiliation / recognition papers.

Happy Holoween!

Rene Vencer, Jr wrote: "Aikido Hiei Kai" has a great ring to it!

Glad you like it

by the way Kai means association right?

Yes... actually its meaning covers just about any gathering of people for any purpose...

By January, hopefully our Dojo will be up and running.

Good luck with it...

Dave