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03-07-2011, 09:34 AM
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#51
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 145
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Mary-
I couldn't locate a source for the quotation Stirling gives about warriors. Can you post a link or something? His definition doesn't square with (a) the dictionary (b) the encyclopedia (c) any contemporary slang usage I've ever heard (d) or mention in any of the military histories I've ever read (250+ books covering the entire span of human history).
Technically, the dictionary says a warrior is literally "one who wages war" or just "soldier". Which is kind of a "duh". It also lists the more contemporary civilian usage referring to sports and corporate competition.
Generally speaking, the bulk of historical evidence is that undisciplined "warriors" don't fare well in combat against disciplined "warriors".
Robin
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All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
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03-07-2011, 09:36 AM
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#52
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 145
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Tony/Henry-
Man. Guys... The good points you guys make get lost when you act like Internet Trolls. Harsh banter can be fun and acceptable in person but it doesn't work well at all on the Internet.
Robin
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All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
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03-07-2011, 09:45 AM
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#53
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote:
Tony/Henry-
Man. Guys... The good points you guys make get lost when you act like Internet Trolls. Harsh banter can be fun and acceptable in person but it doesn't work well at all on the Internet.
Robin
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Part of being a "warrior" is being able to take it, as well as give it.... It was part of the training when I was in the Mob. It wouldn't hurt some on this site to sign up yourselves and do a bit of worrying or warrioring, then you would find out.....
I believe conscription is still in force over the pond. It's voluntary here and one can be made redundant!!
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03-07-2011, 09:56 AM
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#54
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Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 657
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote:
Part of being a "warrior" is being able to take it, as well as give it.... It was part of the training when I was in the Mob. It wouldn't hurt some on this site to sign up yourselves and do a bit of worrying or warrioring, then you would find out.....
I believe conscription is still in force over the pond. It's voluntary here and one can be made redundant!!
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Tony
You are so insensitive to many humourless members of this forum.
I think you should be banned again ( add me
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
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03-07-2011, 10:00 AM
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#55
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote:
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Who me insensitive Henry?
What made you think that.....
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03-07-2011, 10:07 AM
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#56
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Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,202
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote:
Mary-
I couldn't locate a source for the quotation Stirling gives about warriors. Can you post a link or something? His definition doesn't square with (a) the dictionary (b) the encyclopedia (c) any contemporary slang usage I've ever heard (d) or mention in any of the military histories I've ever read (250+ books covering the entire span of human history).
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He is a fiction writer. His books are works of fiction. He speaks through the voices of his characters, who are not real people. He is not writing a dictionary or an encyclopedia, whether a traditional one or one of contemporary slang, and he is not writing scholarly works of military history. He uses the term "warrior" to mean one thing. Graham uses "warrior" to mean something else. In my experience, people on Aikiweb generally use "warrior" in a rather ego-gratifying way, to be honest -- they're using "warrior" to fit their fantasies, and then arguing with other people about who's more warriorly. But nobody owns the word, not you, not me, not Graham, not S M Stirling, and not your 250+ books of military history -- so maybe it's time to stop squabbling and trying to own it. Or, alternately, maybe it's time to stop granting the term such stupidly slavish respect. When the word "warrior" can't be used without the testosterone stench starting to rise, maybe it's better abandoned altogether.
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03-07-2011, 10:52 AM
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#57
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 145
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Aw man, Tony. I'm too old for military service. As a young man, I worked 5+ years as a carpenter (framing houses and office buildings), so verbal abuse doesn't even register with me and enduring physical suffering and discomfort I understand to a fair degree. I even understand what its like to suffer or risk harm to prevent a more serious injury or death to someone else - because I did more than once.
But calling me "humorless" - now that really hurts. You and Henry are funny - but I was just trying to point out that it comes across the wrong way.
Mary - Ah... I understand your point better now. Admittedly, I readily enjoy squabbling over the meaning of things.
Robin
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All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
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03-07-2011, 11:48 AM
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#58
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Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote:
Aw man, Tony. I'm too old for military service. As a young man, I worked 5+ years as a carpenter (framing houses and office buildings), so verbal abuse doesn't even register with me and enduring physical suffering and discomfort I understand to a fair degree. I even understand what its like to suffer or risk harm to prevent a more serious injury or death to someone else - because I did more than once.
But calling me "humorless" - now that really hurts. You and Henry are funny - but I was just trying to point out that it comes across the wrong way.
Mary - Ah... I understand your point better now. Admittedly, I readily enjoy squabbling over the meaning of things.
Robin
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Hi Robin,
There's not a massive amount of humour to be had here on Aikiweb, we all seem to take things pretty seriously. Fun does get poked, but it is pretty kyu grade stuff. There are a few high grades around, at the monent Phi Truong is easily the best practitioner, his technique is pretty effortless. He can playfully burst a pompus bubble with a sharp observation. Irreverence, cheek and a healthy dollop of self depreciation, a true jestoka.
Tony and Henry are a bit like Statler and Waldorf (but without the benefit of script writers), when they get going. I hope they have sense of humour enough to see the funny side of that
There was a brit on here a while back (Ian Hurst - Happysod), now he was funny. Come back Ian, we need you...
playful regards
Mark
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Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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03-07-2011, 11:56 AM
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#59
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote:
Aw man, Tony. I'm too old for military service. As a young man, I worked 5+ years as a carpenter (framing houses and office buildings), so verbal abuse doesn't even register with me and enduring physical suffering and discomfort I understand to a fair degree. I even understand what its like to suffer or risk harm to prevent a more serious injury or death to someone else - because I did more than once.
But calling me "humorless" - now that really hurts. You and Henry are funny - but I was just trying to point out that it comes across the wrong way.
Mary - Ah... I understand your point better now. Admittedly, I readily enjoy squabbling over the meaning of things.
Robin
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Robin, If that is the case, then you would still find it humorous, Us Brits do have a tendency for dryness and sardonic wit and I/We must have thicker skins than we realise? Or am I to blunt? Yes I am..... One of my faults I suppose, but I do have a wicked sense of humour and I'm sorry if it offends you that much.....
Take care buddy
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03-07-2011, 12:07 PM
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#60
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Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 657
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Tony
The funny little faces ? well, they are no longer funny.
Perhaps we can start a thread on the British economy, we can then all be miserable and depressed.
Henry Ellis
Positive Aikido
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
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03-07-2011, 12:16 PM
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#61
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote:
Tony
The funny little faces ? well, they are no longer funny.
Perhaps we can start a thread on the British economy, we can then all be miserable and depressed.
Henry Ellis
Positive Aikido
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
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Precisely Sensei...
With our economy we need a good sense of humour...
We have sod all else at present....
Will stop using little green man, can you suggest an alternative?
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03-07-2011, 12:20 PM
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#62
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Hi Robin,
There's not a massive amount of humour to be had here on Aikiweb, we all seem to take things pretty seriously. Fun does get poked, but it is pretty kyu grade stuff. There are a few high grades around, at the monent Phi Truong is easily the best practitioner, his technique is pretty effortless. He can playfully burst a pompus bubble with a sharp observation. Irreverence, cheek and a healthy dollop of self depreciation, a true jestoka.
Tony and Henry are a bit like Statler and Waldorf (but without the benefit of script writers), when they get going. I hope they have sense of humour enough to see the funny side of that
There was a brit on here a while back (Ian Hurst - Happysod), now he was funny. Come back Ian, we need you...
playful regards
Mark
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Mark, who's Statler & Waldorf? I thought we were more like Morcambe & Wise....
Happysod sounds good....
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03-07-2011, 12:37 PM
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#63
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Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote:
Mark, who's Statler & Waldorf? I thought we were more like Morcambe & Wise....
Happysod sounds good....
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Stattler and Waldorf-sounds like couple of run down motels where I have bedded down in the U.S.A.
Cheers, Joe.
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03-07-2011, 12:44 PM
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#64
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Joe Curran wrote:
Stattler and Waldorf-sounds like couple of run down motels where I have bedded down in the U.S.A.
Cheers, Joe.
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Ha, ha...!!
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03-07-2011, 12:46 PM
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#65
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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03-07-2011, 12:56 PM
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#66
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote:
Mark, who's Statler & Waldorf? I thought we were more like Morcambe & Wise....
Happysod sounds good....
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IVFa...eature=related
dps
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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03-07-2011, 02:20 PM
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#67
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,619
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
Isn't there a distinction between the two.
One is for fighting and the other for fun?
dps
I
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Give that man the Kewpie doll !!!
Jodie Lives!
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Cordially,
Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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03-07-2011, 02:23 PM
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#68
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,619
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, the distinction isn't the weapon or the occupation, but the person.
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The distinction is the nature of the desire of the person for the weapon.
All human evil begins as a spiritual evil. A sword is a shiny chunk of refined rocks...
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Cordially,
Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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03-07-2011, 03:16 PM
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#69
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote:
He's a writer of fiction, Graham. He's got a good grasp of military history, and I'm sure he could cite many examples for you of warrior societies in which it was far more than the "odd arrogant one" who was a glory-seeker. As for Maasai and samurai "warriors", that's history if you're rigorous -- if you take the trouble to study and find out what they were really like, instead of telling yourself fancy stories. It's not here and it's not now. People love that word "warrior", but what do they even mean by it, and what relevance does it have to the contemporary reality of their lives? I think in most cases, it's a tenuous connection at best.
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Mary,I know it's fiction but you used the writer as an example didn't you?
Read the original post properly and you'll find it's about two different states of mind.
As far as warriors go in relation to the topic and just for you bringing it up to nearer present time I could give you a big list. It's nothing to do with male or testosterone either.
In fact I would say Florence Nightingale and Mother Theresa are good historical examples. The woman I saw in the Egypt conflict recently who just set up a stall with medical equipment out in the open whilst all the fighting was going on around her was also a great example.
You could have Ghandi, Mandela, Buddha, Jesus. You could have people you know. None of those busied theirselves fighting and arguing and blaming and complaining. They decided and acted without fear, with compassion and immovable mind and not may I add for glory.
True warriors all. Then along come the fighters and fight about it.
Same ol same ol.
Regards.G.
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03-07-2011, 07:15 PM
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#70
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote:
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Aaaaaaah the muppets!!
Which one are you Henry....?
I look like the geezer on the left......
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03-07-2011, 07:39 PM
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#71
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Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,202
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Mary,I know it's fiction but you used the writer as an example didn't you?
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That's right. It's an example of how no one owns the words, and anyone can make up a definition for them.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote:
Read the original post properly and you'll find it's about two different states of mind.
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Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall...
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03-08-2011, 01:22 AM
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#72
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Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 657
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
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Quote:
Tony
Aaaaaaah the muppets!!
Which one are you Henry....?
I look like the geezer on the left......
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Tony
You are bringing humour and funny faces to the forum again.
. I can see you getting another reprimand...Please note this is a serious forum.
I am on my best behaviour.....I am going to ```cosy``` up to Graham and learn from a true worrier.
Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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03-08-2011, 02:01 AM
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#73
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote:
That's right. It's an example of how no one owns the words, and anyone can make up a definition for them.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall...
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Quote:
"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."
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Chapter 6 in Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There (1871), by Lewis Carroll
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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03-08-2011, 07:38 AM
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#74
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,619
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote:
Quote:
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Mary Malmros wrote: That's right. It's an example of how no one owns the words, and anyone can make up a definition for them.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall...
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"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."
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Such wisdom in the auld rhymes ...
"... and all the King's horses and all the King's men,
couldn't put Humpty together again. "
Shatter the wholeness in the complex pattern of Truth, and you lose the Way -- and you are well and truly lost...
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Cordially,
Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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03-08-2011, 07:45 AM
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#75
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Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
Offline
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Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote:
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind
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Tony
You are bringing humour and funny faces to the forum again.
. I can see you getting another reprimand...Please note this is a serious forum.
I am on my best behaviour.....I am going to ```cosy``` up to Graham and learn from a true worrier.
Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Now that really worries me......
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