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Old 05-07-2007, 05:53 PM   #26
Mike Haftel
Location: Hokkaido
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 87
Re: Alternative Method fo Sankyo

Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
No, you're applying sankyo only.
You are in no way applying nickyo. Twisting the hand/wrist towards uke while horizontal isn't really nickyo, here it's just part of sankyo.
You really have to see and feel it in person. It's not like any sankyo I've personally seen or felt done by an Aikidoka. I am not "just twisting the hand/wrist towards uke while horizontal." The pictures make it look like that, but that's my own fault for not being able to put into writing what I am doing. Again, I don't claim to be doing anything new or innovative here. I'm just applying a few principles, as I've learned them, in a different way compared to how I've seen other Aikidoka use them.

Actually the term 'body lock' is already taken. What you are doing is sankyo, no need to call it a joint lock if you don't want to.
I wasn't really talking about this particular lock, specifically. I was more so making a generalization to all joint locks. My point was that most people I've worked with focus their intent on manipulating the joint or point of contact only. Rather than looking at the big picture and larger objective of manipulting all of Uke. Hence, the term "joint lock" is somewhat misleading because your intent (at least my intent) is not solely on the "joint."

I liked the pictures, but you really really need to post a series with your hands doing the job too.
Thank you for the comment on the pictures.

I need to find an Uke first. I'm actually not anywhere near a dojo at the moment and might not be for some time. That's why I had to use my girlfriend

Last edited by Mike Haftel : 05-07-2007 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:07 PM   #27
Dojo: SC Seidokan Aikido
Location: South Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 13
Re: Alternative Method fo Sankyo

In seidokan we have several modified versions of sankyo that do not involve joint locks at all. Instead of torquing up, we simply turn and cut, and the result often feels more like ikkyo with a sankyo grip. I personally prefer it, especially as uke, as at no point in the technique does it feel like nage can rip your arm off, completely painless. The benefit to this is that uke cannot really feel you doing anything to him until it's too late for him to resist, as he's already on the ground.
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Old 06-30-2007, 12:11 PM   #28
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 290
Re: Alternative Method fo Sankyo

It is fun watching ppl try sankyo with words...and even pictures....but it does not make mat...
... my cheap words.... hold it like a baseball bat and send your uke into 90degrees arm lock....failing that use a daito grip...or better yet use that grip from the start...anyhow my words are cheap

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:36 AM   #29
Dojo: Albuquerque Aikido Kokikai
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 39
Re: Alternative Method fo Sankyo

Mike -

Have you experimented any further with sankyo since your initial post. This thread was really interesting, and I always enjoy getting different perspectives on the basic techniques.
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Old 07-13-2007, 07:31 AM   #30
Dojo: Macclesfield/Genbukan
Location: Stockport
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 45
United Kingdom
Re: Alternative Method fo Sankyo

Hello everyone, i have a grading coming up in a few months and i cant get the hang of sankyo tenkan, i can do the lock fine and i can do irimi quite well.

If anyone could help me could you please let me know.

Many Thanks Jamie
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:29 AM   #31
Mike Haftel
Location: Hokkaido
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 87
Re: Alternative Method fo Sankyo

Tim Miranda wrote: View Post
Mike -

Have you experimented any further with sankyo since your initial post. This thread was really interesting, and I always enjoy getting different perspectives on the basic techniques.

I actually visited another dojo (a few, in fact) and nobody could seem to actually apply sankyo effectively on me. People either didn't get a lock at all, or the lock was concentrated on just the fingers and/or wrist.

I actually prefer to bypass the wrist completely and manipulate the bones in the forearm and upper arm instead.

And, when it came time for the actual take down, people tend to throw the lock/uke away from their own center and try to make a large arc in the air (like going fishing). While this may work on a compliant uke, all it does is cause nage to lose control over uke and puts uke back on his feet and grounds him even further.

What I do is keep uke rotating in sankyo and then drop his arm straight down to the ground and let his arm straighten out naturally right through my own center, where the not in your belt would be. But, because you are taking up that space, you rotate quickly about your own center-line and allow uke's arm to pass through the space you were just in. Uke will drop straight down to the ground over the same point his arm was pointing to the entire technique.

if Uke doesn't go down right away from this drop, you wind up in reverse Ikyo. If this happens, I carve on the spot just behind the elbow with the sharp edge of the bone in my forearm while lifting slightly on uke's wrist (like a see-saw). I don't push on the arm. I carve straight through it by sinking my elbow and punching either the ground below uke or at a line which goes through uke's arm to his chin. I don't bother bringing uke in a downward spiral and tenkan around. To me, it's a waste of energy and less ineffecient than just putting uke straight down.

I must say that this version is a much more painful and violent than the "nice" way most aikidoka do it. But, it doesn't rely on pain compliance, it works because uke has no choice in the matter. I doubt it is taught in most aikido dojo because it may not...fit with the philosphy of blending and such with uke.

I know it's hard to picture. But uke's wrist and arm stay over the same point on the ground the entire time. The lock/throw is centripital rather than centrifugal. And uke goes straight down to the triangulation point between his legs.

When I showed a nidan this at another dojo, they were very surprised.

Last edited by Mike Haftel : 07-13-2007 at 08:41 AM.
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