should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

I have not read this whole thread but I personally think this is a stupid question. I do not have a problem with people who smoke Mary Jane but you should not do it if your are in a position to possibly hurt someone, like training in martial art or driving.

Eric Winters

btw: I don't smoke this is just my opinion.

Maggie Schill wrote: I'm not sure what smoking can do to your nage, but I know what it can do to your uke. Smoking causes a host of tissue issues in the circulatory system, as well as the muscular system. It lowers red blood cell production, your macrophages lower, and increases micro-vascular occlusion and tissue ischemia. Platelets in the tissues can also become hyper-adhesive, and inflexible. (most of these issues are caused by increase of carbon in the system, so weed is in trouble too here. ) All in all, if you take a bad fall on your shoulder, or get twisted up on a projection, it will take a smoker almost 4times longer to heal those injuries. A statistic that grows after the age of 30 dramatically. ouch

Indeed! It's like I've told my friends: look in your bong; you're coating your lungs and cardiovascular system with the same stuff. Combine the information you provided with the Chinese Medicine perspective expressed a short while back and it seems pretty clear to me that the somewhat subtle nature of some of the effects are cause enough for serious caution, let alone with the very obvious effects on the lungs.

Matthew Gano wrote: Indeed! It's like I've told my friends: look in your bong; you're coating your lungs and cardiovascular system with the same stuff. Combine the information you provided with the Chinese Medicine perspective expressed a short while back and it seems pretty clear to me that the somewhat subtle nature of some of the effects are cause enough for serious caution, let alone with the very obvious effects on the lungs.

Yeah, it is beyond your lungs. Anything you put in your body will effect the entire body. In some obvious ways, and in some not so obvious. Like that pound cake I just ate... the obvious effect on my hips, the not so obvious effect on my metabolism and glucose levels.

question: if you use marijuana to smoke a turkey or a rack of ribs, would it affect your aikido journey?

*prefer hickory smoked meself*

Yes, you're very likely to eat the whole thing in one sitting and get too fat to train.

Michael Hackett wrote: Yes, you're very likely to eat the whole thing in one sitting and get too fat to train.

.. you have no idea

Here is a point to think about..

It seems like without exception everyone in this thread is talking about the actual, theoretical or supposed effects of smoking herb on your aikido/martial practice.

Maybe that's backwards.

Maybe instead of the weed (or other things) making aikido richer or more interesting..

... maybe doing aikido (ukemi or various solo practices) can be something to make your use of the herb more interesting.

I know lots of people who like to smoke up and do tai chi. Most of them also do tai chi when they aren't high. They aren't smoking weed to make their tai chi better (or worse). They enjoy smoking weed and the tai chi is something like music or sex that's fun to do while they are high.

I know people smoke up and do yoga and hiking for the same reason. The yoga or hiking is something fun to do which enriches their pot-smoking.

Ask not: will weed-smoking make my aikido better.. rather ask.. will aikido make my weed-smoking better?

Brian Phillips wrote: Here is a point to think about.. It seems like without exception everyone in this thread is talking about the actual, theoretical or supposed effects of smoking herb on your aikido/martial practice. Maybe that's backwards. Maybe instead of the weed (or other things) making aikido richer or more interesting.. ... maybe doing aikido (ukemi or various solo practices) can be something to make your use of the herb more interesting. I know lots of people who like to smoke up and do tai chi. Most of them also do tai chi when they aren't high. They aren't smoking weed to make their tai chi better (or worse). They enjoy smoking weed and the tai chi is something like music or sex that's fun to do while they are high. I know people smoke up and do yoga and hiking for the same reason. The yoga or hiking is something fun to do which enriches their pot-smoking. Ask not: will weed-smoking make my aikido better.. rather ask.. will aikido make my weed-smoking better?

I would not trust my joints in the hands of a high nage.

We aren't listening to Rush while taking the archer's stance. We are being thrust many miles per hour in vulnerable situations, all in and out of the hands of those we trust with that vulnerability.

A high uke is no better. Some one who can't judge distance, has diminished ballance and slow nerve relay-reaction. They could rack their neck and never feel it. Injuries is what it comes down to.

Some one who can't judge distance, has diminished ballance and slow nerve relay-reaction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyIPSLABM9E

sorry , couldnt resist.

Maggie Schill wrote: I would not trust my joints in the hands of a high nage.

Think they might get smoked?

Alfonso Adriasola wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyIPSLABM9E sorry , couldnt resist.

Yeah...but that guy's Canadian!

Charles David Henderson wrote: Think they might get smoked?

wouldn't put it past some people

I have no advice on whether to combine Aikido with smoking weed ... but I have observed something.
Those people who I definitely know to smoke or have smoked substantial amounts of weed over the years are now mostly incompetent/insane.
Just my observation of less than half a dozen folk.

I'm also sure it isn't as clear as cause & effect and that there are exceptions.
Just what I have observed : ALL of them = fudged up to some degree.

Hey! It's no where near as debilitating as alcohol though!

Well I would consider it poor reishiki to be on the mat in an altered state. We emphasize the importance of having trimmed nails, clean keikogi, and clean breath during training. My teacher would scold then kick you off the mat if you had consumed alcohol recently...let alone weed.

Now, training hungover from celebrating with your fellow aikidoka the night before (during a seminar for example) is a different story.

Why?

Adam Huss wrote: Well I would consider it poor reishiki to be on the mat in an altered state.

Ueshiba had poor reishiki?
(I'm pretending to know what that is...)
You don't get -much- more altered than his state!

what is all this non-sense?

Brian Phillips wrote: I know lots of people who like to smoke up and do tai chi.

So do I. They "do Tai Chi", but they don't really do Tai Chi; it's almost invariably their "take" on tai chi, not real Tai Chi. Happens in a lot of arts where you pretend you're something, you use lots of foreign words, you have authority-figures, and you wear uniforms, and you make up your own meaning that are "just as good as what the founders did... maybe even better, since they weren't as cool and clever as I am about understanding the depths of the universe and love".

Farm out.

Mike Sigman

One needs to ask the question
"What do you get out of marijuana that makes you want to use it?" Surely things like it slows reaction time, makes you drowsy, encourages weight gain, causes shortness of breath, can be responsible for mental health problems or unsociable behavior are not things as role models we want to promote to our children.

So what is it that you get out of using pot?

Are you trying to expand your mind or become enlightened in some way? Did all the great spiritual leaders use or promote pot? Bob Marley may have but he was not a spiritual leader although his songs did promote unity and love which can only be a good thing.

My answer is that if you want to expand your mind and become closer to God, then you should read the bible (or any other religion that promotes god and love) and live it, then your mind will expand then again why not just study the true meaning of Ai-Ki-Do

Pot apparently makes you "feel" good but do you actually DO any "good" to anyone else because of it?

Jeremy Raven wrote: One needs to ask the question "What do you get out of marijuana that makes you want to use it?" Surely things like it slows reaction time, makes you drowsy, encourages weight gain, causes shortness of breath, can be responsible for mental health problems or unsociable behavior are not things as role models we want to promote to our children. So what is it that you get out of using pot? Are you trying to expand your mind or become enlightened in some way? Did all the great spiritual leaders use or promote pot? Bob Marley may have but he was not a spiritual leader although his songs did promote unity and love which can only be a good thing.

I think that those are questions that people need to ask of themselves -- assuming they feel the need to do so. Secondarily, I suppose it's worth asking other people, if you do so in a spirit of sincere inquiry rather than as a method to create a soapbox to articulate your views. Unfortunately, this thread has primarily consisted of people asking/demanding/shouting the questions at others, or about others, and then shouting out their own answers. That's not the way to come to understanding.

If you genuinely want to know why other people do something, then ask them -- in an open-ended manner, such as, "Why do you do that?", not "Do you think that's going to make you enlightened or something?" with the strong implication that if you do think so, you're a dummy. Then listen to the answer. If you don't want to do that, soapbox away, but don't kid yourself about what you're doing.

Mary Malmros wrote: I think that those are questions that people need to ask of themselves -- assuming they feel the need to do so. Secondarily, I suppose it's worth asking other people, if you do so in a spirit of sincere inquiry rather than as a method to create a soapbox to articulate your views. Unfortunately, this thread has primarily consisted of people asking/demanding/shouting the questions at others, or about others, and then shouting out their own answers. That's not the way to come to understanding. If you genuinely want to know why other people do something, then ask them -- in an open-ended manner, such as, "Why do you do that?", not "Do you think that's going to make you enlightened or something?" with the strong implication that if you do think so, you're a dummy. Then listen to the answer. If you don't want to do that, soapbox away, but don't kid yourself about what you're doing.

I know this comment will take away from what Mary is saying and to be honest I think what she is saying is important. It is very much what occurred in this thread . I also think that by and large what people view as political and social discourse is often exactly what she describes. A speakers park with folks ranting from their various soapboxes oblivious to the others in the park ranting away or in this case hearing some one say Marijuana and jumping up to state their thesis on Marijuana be it legalization, spiritual use, doorway to other drugs or that all the pot smokers I know are lazy bums. Goodonya, Mary for pointing this out.

That being said, Mary's comment gave me a lovely image of Mary (and I don't know Mary so it was actually a short fiery spirited women with dark curly hair) stepping up onto a soapbox and proclaiming vehemently against soapboxes and their evils. While that is not her intent, it is the image it brought to mind. A cartoon that made me smile.

Jeremy Raven wrote: Surely things like it slows reaction time, makes you drowsy, encourages weight gain, causes shortness of breath, can be responsible for mental health problems or unsociable behavior are not things as role models we want to promote to our children.

I don't think you're exactly correct here, but I agree those are not traits I want to promote in my child. Based on my tenure in this subject matter (i.e."10-year"), those are not any more true of marijuana than the more popular drug, alcohol (minus the shortness of breath which occurs from smoking anything). If my son is of proper age/maturity and chooses to drink in moderation, I will not be very concerned. The same would be true for pretty much anything else I can think of. Smoking anything would cause me concern because it's unhealthy for the lungs. Charred materials with oily resins are not good to breathe.

So what is it that you get out of using pot?

Well in my case, mostly a few thousand pages of poetry and prose along with some other works; not particularly well organized...and, actually, a surprising number of fun memories. It wasn't the pot that made it fun, to be clear, but it was there as part of the overall effect. What do you suppose Noah "got" from drinking wine?

Are you trying to expand your mind or become enlightened in some way? Did all the great spiritual leaders use or promote pot? Bob Marley may have but he was not a spiritual leader although his songs did promote unity and love which can only be a good thing.

Well, to begin with, I think many folks would disagree about "Bob" not being a spiritual leader. Rastafarianism is not a joke to a devout rastafarian and Bob had a lot to say about his view of the world....the point of which being that for some, it seems to be a perfectly valid form of spirituality.
To answer your question, for me, expanding the mind was the earliest purpose. Simply put: to experience it. I was very devoutly against recreational drugs because I was a child in Regan's 80's (I just said "NO"), but I eventually came to see a disconnect between the message and the reality about marijuana. I investigated. I believe sober meditation to be a more profound activity, though.

My answer is that if you want to expand your mind and become closer to God, then you should read the bible (or any other religion that promotes god and love) and live it, then your mind will expand then again why not just study the true meaning of Ai-Ki-Do

Sure, why not? I don't see reading the Bible as being any more naturally spiritual of an experience than almost anything else I can think of though. In my opinion there's more to simply performing some given act in order for it to be spiritual; which means, at the least, almost any act can be part of a spiritual experience, in my view...And which is why this remains an open question to me: it is not for me to determine whether or not pot would be appropriate for someone else.

Pot apparently makes you "feel" good but do you actually DO any "good" to anyone else because of it?

"Because" of it? No, of course not. But there were certainly times when it relaxed me and put me in a better mood which made for a more positive experience hanging out with me. Obviously it's not good if one needs to imbibe to attain that state, but where it's more coincidental I don't see a problem. This all said, I've been bored with pot for a while now. I don't smoke it presently because I'm 32, my lungs feel it like never before, and I'm playing soccer so it's an obvious detriment to my ability to run my best.
So, in your opinion, how does this all tie into Aikido? Or, more to the point, into some hypothetical study of Aikido? I don't see how it would necessarily be a terrible thing for some person, but I also don't think it would be ideal and I believe deep and sincere training (the kind that most readily applies to spirituality) should always be heading in the direction of what is ideal. That's my opinion... ... based on something of a longitudinal study I began in high school and ended in my late 20's.
Be good to yourself folks!
Ogenkide!
Matt

Matthew Gano wrote: I don't think you're exactly correct here

Really do you care to explain which ones you disagree with?

Well in my case, mostly a few thousand pages of poetry and prose along with some other works; not particularly well organized...and, actually, a surprising number of fun memories. It wasn't the pot that made it fun, to be clear, but it was there as part of the overall effect. What do you suppose Noah "got" from drinking wine?

I suppose he got a sore head in the morning.

Well, to begin with, I think many folks would disagree about "Bob" not being a spiritual leader. Rastafarianism is not a joke to a devout rastafarian and Bob had a lot to say about his view of the world....the point of which being that for some, it seems to be a perfectly valid form of spirituality.

I dont believe Bob Marley considered himself a spiritual leader at all, he considered himself a singer/writer of music who followed Rasterfarinanism and worshipped Haile Selassie.

I believe sober meditation to be a more profound activity, though.

Perhaps that is my point.

it is not for me to determine whether or not pot would be appropriate for someone else.

Im not here to judge anybody, I am just raising some questions.

So, in your opinion, how does this all tie into Aikido? Or, more to the point, into some hypothetical study of Aikido?

You asking me this question? Personally I dont think Marijuana has anything to do with the "Study" of Aikido or the "journey" as the OP has put it. if O'Sensei didnt smoke it, and I can can assume he didnt, then why should I have the need too?

Jeremy Raven wrote: Really do you care to explain which ones you disagree with?

Sorry, I seem to have deleted a bit of my post. I would argue the effects you listed, apart from that of smoking on the lungs, are not always true. Not all people get sleepy, the munchies, etc. As such, they're not absolutely true.

I dont believe Bob Marley considered himself a spiritual leader at all, he considered himself a singer/writer of music who followed Rasterfarinanism and worshipped Haile Selassie...Personally I dont think Marijuana has anything to do with the "Study" of Aikido or the "journey" as the OP has put it. if O'Sensei didnt smoke it, and I can can assume he didnt, then why should I have the need too?

I didn't say he considered himself a spiritual leader though. I meant to draw a correlation between his spirituality and those who might look to him as an exemplar of spirituality...as I know many people to do. I believe the fact that his spirituality was expressed partly through marijuana is the pertinent part relating to the thread. So what if another Rastafarian happens to practice Aikido? Should he or she quit their normal spiritual practices? Now dropping codefied religions altogether, should someone else who happens to find a spiritual marijuana experience quit that practice?
Perhaps that's the best way to frame what I'm trying to allow for in my convoluted rambling.

Matthew Gano wrote: Sorry, I seem to have deleted a bit of my post. I would argue the effects you listed, apart from that of smoking on the lungs, are not always true. Not all people get sleepy, the munchies, etc. As such, they're not absolutely true.

Yes okay everybody is different, but then from my xp pot smokers will always argue about facts and figures anyway which really wasn't my point to begin with.

Now dropping codefied religions altogether, should someone else who happens to find a spiritual marijuana experience quit that practice? Perhaps that's the best way to frame what I'm trying to allow for in my convoluted rambling.

Yes I think there are healthier ways to find spiritual enlightenment.