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Old 06-07-2007, 06:41 PM   #26
ChrisMoses
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Matthew Feldmeyer wrote: View Post
I am a fairly big guy, around 6'-1" and 215 lbs. I purchased an Iaido gi and hakama from Tozando. I found that the straps on the hakama where a few inches shorter than would be optimal. I can barely get an actual knot with the front straps. The gi for Iaido that they sell don't come in sizes above a 4 either, so I was guessing this is just because Tozando Iaido department doesn't market to bigger people.
I always buy their "Aikido" hakama, even for iai and have never had trouble making a knot (simple or formal) with the straps (I'm about 6' and 195 lbs). Just for clarity, I put the front on first, wrap the hime around 1.5 times and tie in the back, then put on the back of the hakama and use the rear hime to form the knot in front (probably one of the reasons that the Bujin hakama seem too long to me, they seem to expect people to start with the koshita).

Chris Moses
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Old 06-07-2007, 10:17 PM   #27
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Jeffrey Fong wrote: View Post
I agree with Nafis Zahir. I have two hakama and purchased another for a friend. The first two cotton were heavy and first quality. The second was a lighter material and just not the same. I sent it back and discussed this with Ginger Ikeda, but to no avail. They swore the material was the same, but... Trivial? Maybe, but disapointing.
The person I spoke with told me that the company they were getting their material from either closed or was now getting material from outside the USA. They wanted to get their material from within the USA and I believe he said that they were using a company in Florida. Anyway, they no longer make the duck hakama, and as for the cotton hakama, I cannot speak on the quality. However, he did tell me that the hakama that is now called the twill, IS NOT the same material that it once was. I'm going to get my next hakama from Tozando, although recently, I have been tempted to give Iwata a try.

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Old 06-07-2007, 10:20 PM   #28
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote: View Post
I always buy their "Aikido" hakama, even for iai and have never had trouble making a knot (simple or formal) with the straps (I'm about 6' and 195 lbs). Just for clarity, I put the front on first, wrap the hime around 1.5 times and tie in the back, then put on the back of the hakama and use the rear hime to form the knot in front (probably one of the reasons that the Bujin hakama seem too long to me, they seem to expect people to start with the koshita).
Also, their koshita is much harder. There is nothing like a nice, soft, form fitting koshita. By the way, the knot doesn't bother you at all when you take ukemi?

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Old 06-08-2007, 01:37 AM   #29
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Ever since I became a yudansha in 1978, I have used hakama made by Iwata. Before I came to Japan these were ordered by the dojo from Japan. The names were always correctly written on the back. When I bought my last hakama, I visited the shop in Okubo, Tokyo and met everyone. You can have your hakama built to order, so to speak, with the straps as long as you like (in my case both knots are in front, around the seika tanden, below the Fujita-style wrap-around obi).
My Iwata hakama has served me well for a long time as well and I would second a recommendation for them. I've always felt that getting a hakama there was like getting an off-the-rack suit. They get out the standard size for your height, have you wear it, and then take measurements and such so they can appropriately alter it (strap length, hem length, side-vent length, etc.) so it will be something of a custom fit. Even after many years when some of the stitching came out I took it back and they fixed it and double-stictched everything to make it more robust for a nominal fee. The downside comes in I suppose when you can't go to their store but have to mail order it, which particularly adds to the price when it's an international shipment.

Also, it was explained to me that Iwata (and other makers like Tozando) make hakama in the "official" aikikai style. What that basically means, so I was told, is that the front straps are generally designed extra long so that they wrap a full two times around and can be tied in the front. Supposedly a knot in the back can be bothersome to some when taking some ukemi and the extra wrap around helps add to the stability of the hakama on the wearer, however, I know many people with the standard strap length hakamas which tie in the back and they seem to get along fine so I think it's more up to the user's preference.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:42 AM   #30
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

My experience with the Bujin hakama has been less than stellar. Because of this I now get THIS ONE from e-bogu.com. It is very durable, works well for iai, fits great right off the rack (I'm 5' 9" & 250 lbs), and is considerably less expensive than most others mentioned here. For me the small difference in quality that may exist between the e-bogu tetron hakama and, for example, the Mugendo tetron hakama doesn't justify the difference in price.

YMMV,

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:28 AM   #31
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Polyester died in the 70's keep it there and don't order plastic hakamas. Cotton requires more care, ie ironing, but it is worth the labor. The only exception would be for a 1st time hakama wearer. Then go ahead and get the non cotton hakama. Learn how to care and fold it correctly. Better to make your mistakes on the forgiving "plastic" hakama then on the cotton hakama. As cotton tends to have a memory and it will take on the manner by which you fold it. Fold it poorly and it show. Then graduate up to the Heavy cotton hakama. You wont be sorry

I liked the old Bujin heavy cotton hakama. It served me well for years when it died in combat. A Nage stepped on the bottom as I took ukemi and ripped both side seams. It is now enjoying retirement in my closet. I just cant bring myself to throw it out. I cant say much about the new twill, as I haven't used it yet. Ikeda sensei often takes orders and measurements after his seminars. That might be a good time to get an order in.

I currently use Iwata heavy cotton hakama which I purchased 8 years ago.Its the best training buddy I have ever had. Though I found the stitching around the Koshita region to be less than adequate. I had the koshita double stitched 2 yrs ago when the original stiches and fabric failed. Folding the Iwata is abit different than other Hakamas. The Iwata has an elliptical shape to it. The bottom is "bell" shaped. So folding it will take some time and practice. It is definitely not a beginner's hakama.

P.S.
It maybe a wife's tale, but I thought tying the knot in the back was a no-no for Aikido because the knot would press up on the spinal cord when being thrown. Which could lead to back injuries during break/high falls. I dont have any references for this but I do believe it.

Last edited by SmilingNage : 06-08-2007 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Additional Info

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Old 06-08-2007, 08:55 AM   #32
ChrisMoses
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Nafis Zahir wrote: View Post
Also, their koshita is much harder. There is nothing like a nice, soft, form fitting koshita. By the way, the knot doesn't bother you at all when you take ukemi?
Never. Most of the times these days when I'm wearing hakama I'm wearing a kaku obi which also has its not in the back, so you just don't land there. Most falls are to one side or the other, and if you're going straight over, it's still no biggie. Even with a judo style obi though, I can make a square not that is thinner than two layers of obi. Honestly I notice that more than the knot these days.

Chris Moses
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:03 AM   #33
ChrisMoses
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
William Oakes wrote: View Post
Polyester died in the 70's keep it there and don't order plastic hakamas.
Unless of course you snowboard, ski, cycle, climb, hike, row, motorcycle, dance, run, lift, fruit-boot... Most 'high-tech' fabrics that help keep us cool when it's hot and warm when it's cold are made from synthetic materials. Cotton is nice, but it certainly has disadvantages. Check the tag on your Bujin keikogi, guess what the lining is made from...

Please note that I'm not bashing on Bujin. I think they're a great company and great people. There are just other distributors/manufacturers that I prefer. I also realize that I'm probably in the minority about the aiki-koshita, but my sword line is pretty particular about how one is dressed. I guess I have to be anal about something. Aiki-koshita, hakama that are too long, or gi pants showing under the hakama all make me grumpy...

Chris Moses
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:54 AM   #34
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Only worn Bu Jin for years. No problems.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:18 AM   #35
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
William Oakes wrote: View Post
P.S.
It maybe a wife's tale, but I thought tying the knot in the back was a no-no for Aikido because the knot would press up on the spinal cord when being thrown. Which could lead to back injuries during break/high falls. I dont have any references for this but I do believe it.
I tie the knot in the back, but not in the center of the back so it wont press the spinal cord. I knot a little bit more to the side which i guess its enough to avoid injuries. (didnt have none since today, at least )

Works fine with me, and my sempai partners knot this way too, always saying to be carefull not to tie right in the center of the back.

best
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:08 PM   #36
Jack Simpson
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

dropping in a little late....

your hakama should come from Iwata. It should be the traditional 100% cotton, dyed the traditional indigo blue. The only allowed connection with "modern" methods is that you don't have to set the dye by soaking it in large pool of urine.

That being said, I have two Iwata hakama, one that is just about worn out and the second that I keep for seminars, testing, etc. My daily wearer is the cheapest hakama bujin offered with an "aiki" koshiita. Had it for several years, hangs great and the knees are only now showing signs of wear. Hovering above the mat during suwari waza will help in this regard

Also have a hand-made beauty from a nice lady in Woodstock, NY, but got to get out the needle and thread and repair the knees on that one as well. Just make sure with whatever one you choose that the koshi-ita is either rubber or some type flexible material.

cheers,
Jack
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Old 06-25-2007, 04:59 PM   #37
Janet Rosen
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

I second the above re: koshita. Best tip I ever got on hak repair was from a sempai who'd moved west from Chicago and told be they always used plumbers gasket to re-fill the koshita as needed. I've done so and darn if it isn't excellent - flexes, doesn't break, and you can comfortably roll/fall all over it.

Janet Rosen
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Old 06-25-2007, 07:08 PM   #38
Chris Li
 
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Jack Simpson wrote: View Post
dropping in a little late....

your hakama should come from Iwata. It should be the traditional 100% cotton, dyed the traditional indigo blue.
I"m not sure why Iwata is a "should", but here is an interesting quote on hakama at the pre-war Kobukan:

Quote:
"Everyone wore them. When you joined you had to buy training uniform and that included a hakama. Most people used black but some had white. I had a black one.... or was it white? At first I bought a white one but it got so filthy that I took it home and dyed it black because the things were so hard to wash."
So why is blue "traditional"?

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-25-2007, 10:30 PM   #39
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

The one thing that Tozando has over Iwata, is that the stitching never comes apart, especially around the koshita. Also, I don't believe that blue is traditional. Remember, black doesn't bleed!

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Old 06-26-2007, 12:36 AM   #40
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Chris,

may I ask where you got that quote from?

Warm regards,
Sonja
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:37 AM   #41
Chris Li
 
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Sonja McGough wrote: View Post
Chris,

may I ask where you got that quote from?

Warm regards,
Sonja
Stan Pranin's interview with Kunigoshi.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-26-2007, 01:20 AM   #42
Aikilove
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Nafis Zahir wrote: View Post
The one thing that Tozando has over Iwata, is that the stitching never comes apart, especially around the koshita. Also, I don't believe that blue is traditional. Remember, black doesn't bleed!
I wouldn't necessarily agree on that. I bought a 65% / 35% polyester /polyacetylene hakama (I think at least) from Tozando at least 5-6 years ago. It was one of the less pricy ones. All though I'm happy over all with the hakama (it folds itself and it looks nice to wear) the stitches were not of the best quality on that one. I've had to restitch around the lower end of the koshita at least three times. In the crotch once and at the side hem once or twice. In all cases except at the koshita it was easy to restitch, by re-using the stitch holes. But still.
I'm thinking Bujin next time. Aiki koshita style. I'm just debating if I should go with indigo or black and what fabric I should use.

/J

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:41 AM   #43
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Jakob Blomquist wrote: View Post
I wouldn't necessarily agree on that. I bought a 65% / 35% polyester /polyacetylene hakama (I think at least) from Tozando at least 5-6 years ago. It was one of the less pricy ones. All though I'm happy over all with the hakama (it folds itself and it looks nice to wear) the stitches were not of the best quality on that one. I've had to restitch around the lower end of the koshita at least three times. In the crotch once and at the side hem once or twice. In all cases except at the koshita it was easy to restitch, by re-using the stitch holes. But still.
I'm thinking Bujin next time. Aiki koshita style. I'm just debating if I should go with indigo or black and what fabric I should use.

/J
Yours may be the exception to the rule. I'm on my third hakama from Tozando and have never had that problem. I would stick with Tozando, but if you must try Bujin, go with the black. As I stated before, black doesn't bleed!

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Old 06-26-2007, 03:01 AM   #44
Bronson
 
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Best tip I ever got on hak repair was from a sempai who'd moved west from Chicago and told be they always used plumbers gasket to re-fill the koshita as needed.
I've also been told a mouse pad works well (cut to shape of course).

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:36 AM   #45
Aikilove
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Nafis Zahir wrote: View Post
Yours may be the exception to the rule. I'm on my third hakama from Tozando and have never had that problem. I would stick with Tozando, but if you must try Bujin, go with the black. As I stated before, black doesn't bleed!
Yes and I should mention that I have been training like crazy (at least the first couple of years with the hakama). Other people in the dojo that have bought 100% polyester hakama, blend or pure cotton from Tozando have been very pleased with them.
Re: Bujin. I think I will go with black. You can't go wrong with that.

/J

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:40 AM   #46
Jack Simpson
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

it "should" be Iwata, because that's what I have. Of course satire doesn't work well on the web. Can be anything you like, the Iwata's are nice. Would also second the plumber's gasket trick and have used this on one of my haks.

Now the blue versus black. I do remember reading that the first indigo dyeing in Japan used large vats of urine to set the dye and the way to tell if the fabric was "authentic" was that is would smell slightly of urine. yuck. Also heard that the black trend in hakamas came after wwII when the only fabric around was "black-out" cloth, but I can't substantiate that particular rumor. I do believe you want to steer clear of white, as that color is usually worn at funerals in asian countries.

For an excellent read about hakamas and other more esoteric dojo stuff, I recommend Dave Lowry's recent book "In the Dojo". I'm particularly fond of his theories on the pleats of the hakama having great symbolic mystery (no), and he makes up some of his own. I do believe the 3rd pleat pertains to the virtue of "not running with scissors".

In the end, for whoever was originally seriously asking this question, bujin, iwata, tozando, any would be fine. Have fun, train hard and remember the koshi-ita goes in the back.

cheers,
Jack
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:24 AM   #47
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Jack Simpson wrote: View Post

Now the blue versus black. I do remember reading that the first indigo dyeing in Japan used large vats of urine to set the dye and the way to tell if the fabric was "authentic" was that is would smell slightly of urine. yuck. Also heard that the black trend in hakamas came after wwII when the only fabric around was "black-out" cloth, but I can't substantiate that particular rumor. I do believe you want to steer clear of white, as that color is usually worn at funerals in asian countries.
The Kunigoshi quote referred to pre-war practice, so the "black-out" cloth myth is just that - a myth. Morihiro Saito said that they tried to make some hakama after the war out of black out curtains, but it didn't work out very well. I'd also note that many people in the pre-war Kobukan (also according to Kunigoshi) wore white hakama. I've seen white hakama in Yoshinkan, and also from others (such as Hikitsuchi), so it's obviously not reserved for funerals.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-26-2007, 11:38 AM   #48
ChrisMoses
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
The Kunigoshi quote referred to pre-war practice, so the "black-out" cloth myth is just that - a myth. Morihiro Saito said that they tried to make some hakama after the war out of black out curtains, but it didn't work out very well. I'd also note that many people in the pre-war Kobukan (also according to Kunigoshi) wore white hakama. I've seen white hakama in Yoshinkan, and also from others (such as Hikitsuchi), so it's obviously not reserved for funerals.

Best,

Chris
Chris, you need a hug. You've been Mr. Grumpy lately and that's my gig...

Chris Moses
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:16 PM   #49
Chris Li
 
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote: View Post
Chris, you need a hug. You've been Mr. Grumpy lately and that's my gig...
Hey, I'm trying to work my way up to crotchety old man status .

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-26-2007, 12:39 PM   #50
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Re: Bujin Hakamas

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Hey, I'm trying to work my way up to crotchety old man status .

Best,

Chris
Best of luck to you, I'm hoping for "Dirty Old Man" status myself.

Chris Moses
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