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Old 07-25-2002, 05:38 PM   #1
Jakusotsu
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Hakama, Obi and Zubon?

It's my understanding that before gendai budo began spreading, martial arts practioners wore the dogi top and a hakama.

As Judo developed they added the zubon and obi and removed the hakama. Aikido seems to have picked up all three.

Is this the case? Am I mistaken? Does anyone know the why's or wherefore's of martial fashion?

Eric Kroier
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Old 07-26-2002, 09:50 PM   #2
Peter Boylan
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Just as shirt and trousers are the standard clothing today, hakama and kimono (gi) were the standard wear for hundreds of years in Japan. When we do most sports, we wear some version of our everyday clothing. The Japanese are, and were, the same. The hakama was the standard everyday clothing for the upper classes in Japan, so when someone practiced kenjutsu or sojutsu (yari/spear) or naginata, or just about anything else, he wore hakama. The judogi which you refer to was devised by Jigoro Kano Shihan to withstand the rigors of the randori style training he devised. Prior to this almost all jujutsu training had been kata based, so clothing didn't take the beating it does in the randori style training Kano Shihan developed for his Kodokan Judo.

Peter Boylan

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Old 07-27-2002, 03:56 AM   #3
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Hakama, Obi and Zubon?

Quote:
Eric Kroier (Jakusotsu) wrote:
It's my understanding that before gendai budo began spreading, martial arts practioners wore the dogi top and a hakama.
Not quite. A samurai of the late Tokugawa period would probably have worn a fundoshi (or loincloth), probably rokushaku (6 shaku, or just over 2 metres) in length, a kosode (a garment like a kimono), tied with an obi, an ankle-length hakama, and a haori. During the Meiji period western dress became more common, but Morihei Ueshiba hardly ever worn western-style clothing. I would imagine that Morihei Ueshiba would have worn something similar to what I have described above and this seems to be the case from the film taken of him in the 1930s (although the students appear to have been wearing keikogi and hakama). There are some famous pictures of him at Iwama, after the war, holding a wooden bokken. Since he is dressed in everyday clothes, he appears to be wearing a hosode and jacket, with obi, but not the hakama.

As Mr Boylan suggests, Kano's ingenious solution of combining the Japanese and the modern western in his judo suit were accepted by Morihei Ueshiba, probably for the reasons he suggests. But he insisted on the hakama also, for everybody.

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P A Goldsbury
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Old 07-27-2002, 04:11 AM   #4
Edward
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I believe Kendo and Kenjitsu practitioners wear Hakama without anything underneath while we at Aikido have to wear the Zubon as well. It seems it is very bad manners in Aikido to wear Hakama without Zubon. However, I have seen some Japanese visitors do that. Any explanation?
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Old 07-27-2002, 06:05 AM   #5
mike lee
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Cool out of sight

I'm teaching a small group of college students during a summer session. I ditched the hakama for four reasons: the dojo is hot as hell and because I want them to see my legs and feet positioning. We're also doing more yoga-type stretching as well as aiki-ken.

I think they're learning a little faster and I'm a little cooler.

But in the fall when the bulk of the students return, I'll go back to running a more traditional-style class, complete with hakama.

P.S. If we didn't were pants under the hakama, after class if we fold the hakama on the mat we would be in our underwear. I don't think that would look good. Also, by wearing pants under the hakama, we don't need to clean the hakama so often because the pants absorb most of the sweat.

Last edited by mike lee : 07-27-2002 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 07-27-2002, 08:25 AM   #6
davidmartin
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Edward wrote:
Quote:
It seems it is very bad manners in Aikido to wear Hakama without Zubon
Assuming Zubon refers to the trousers we wear to train in (The word is new to me), I have seen students wearing thyem with cut-off legs under Hakama. I have also seen students sent off the mat at seminars given by Japanese Shihan for doing just this
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Old 07-27-2002, 09:13 PM   #7
Kent Enfield
 
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Re: out of sight

Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
If we didn't were pants under the hakama, after class if we fold the hakama on the mat we would be in our underwear. I don't think that would look good.
Well, there's an easy solution to this that every student of kendo and iaido has learned: don't remove your pants in public. You take off you hakama in the dressing room with the rest of your uniform, then fold it after changing.
Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
Also, by wearing pants under the hakama, we don't need to clean the hakama so often because the pants absorb most of the sweat.
You'll find that most kendo and iaido students don't wash their hakama very often either. When they do, it's usually because they've collected lint and dust on the outside. The keikogi absorbs most of the sweat. How sweaty do the legs of your pants get?

Oh, and zubon simply means "trousers" in Japanese, coming from the Portugeuse.

Kentokuseisei
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