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Old 12-18-2003, 11:07 AM   #26
AsimHanif
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Ron/John,

sounds like we need a commission huh?
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Old 12-18-2003, 11:20 AM   #27
kung fu hamster
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My personal feeling is that if Jun would move this thread to the Anonymous forum you would get much more response and quite a bit less 'sanitized'... in case you want to really know what people think... I'm glad Jun doesn't have such a thing but I wonder what a 'No Holds Barred' forum would look like, could we bear it? I like my rose-colored glasses...
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Old 12-18-2003, 12:56 PM   #28
kironin
 
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Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
I think you're right on point John. I tend to think it is less an issue of location but more in terms of (I hate to use this term) class?
Not necessarily. Sometimes it is location.

There is one dojo in town that has a sensei who is originally from eastern europe, but his students are over 90% Latino. It makes sense for the demographic around that dojo. It is not an economically affluent area. The caucasian sensei speaks no Spanish and has advanced degrees. Some of his best students have trouble paying their dues.

Another dojo has a sensei who is Latino but last time I was visiting enough to know, it was perhaps less than 50-50 Latino-Caucasian and that made sense to the demographics in his area. A hodgepodge area of affluent and not affluent.

In my dojo there is a mix of caucasian,asian,Indian American and in the past black and latino. Mostly caucasian which makes sense for the demographics of the local area. Yes, the area is affluent but that includes African Americans. I have had black students who earn much more than I do at my day job. Actually the other issue is that with two male instructors, we have only one dedicated female student though hopefully another maybe joining in January. critical mass ?

on the other hand, the longer more established dojo in Austin with a female head sensei has several female black belts and more gender balance.

We try to keep in touch with what we may or may not be doing. A senior student does a simple interview with new students after they have been in the dojo for a month to see if improvements can be made. We try to understand why people leave - the primary reason seems to be location and schedule if it's not this is just more work/physical than I thought. Job changes, family changes, life changes, etc.

You do what you can to try to make everyone feel welcome, the rest really is up to individuals and what they are looking for.



The aikido dojos in the Houston area are on the west side and north of town and perhaps for that reason there is no dojo with a large number of African American students. There is also no Yoshinkan dojo in the region. So I have only been wishing for a while that Amos Parker Sensei would open a dojo in the right demographic area and kill two birds with one stone. I would certainly visit!

Craig
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:18 PM   #29
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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At the Pleasant Hill dojo, there is a Kempo Karate (I think?) class right before ours. We usually arrive in time to watch them in pads/gloves finishing their sparring. The sensei is Latino (at least partially, I believe), and I notice the class has many more Latino and African-American students. Our class is not all white (some Asian students, etc.), and I emphatically state that it would shock me to find any rascism in our dojo. However, the distinction is notable.

Of course, there's also an age difference. I'm a bouncy college student, but I'm the odd one; mostly middle aged. The karate class has almost entirely younger students. Even the sensei seems strikingly young. (Of course, the middle aged people in our dojo are quite fit; some probably more than me, if not more 'resilient' in the way that youth provides). It could be that there is a distinct 'yuppie mindset' of some sort that enters into our dojo on account of the age, and that this mindset is not as prevalent in the Latino and African American community.

I don't know about differences in dues. Ours are not that heavy, and they do all go right back to things like fixing up the mats. I seem to recall something that suggested the karate class has similar fees, but I can't verify this.

This would be a fascinating study...you'd probably want to ID some relevant factors, like:

-Race (primary dependent variable)

-Age

-Available income

-Crime (as suggested by the individual who felt that 'practicality' might be a consideration)

-Style (w.r.t. emphasis on what the average person might consider to look the most effective)

-Instructor qualifications

Looking at these both with respect to the community, one or more aikido dojos, and one or more non-aikido dojos.

We're sort of doing this right now, though not in any hard-and-fast statistical way.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:23 PM   #30
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Also might be worthwhile to look at 'available free time'.
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:01 PM   #31
Steven
 
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Quote:
Craig Hocker (kironin) wrote:
There is also no Yoshinkan dojo in the region. So I have only been wishing for a while that Amos Parker Sensei would open a dojo in the right demographic area and kill two birds with one stone. I would certainly visit!
Funny you should mention this. Did you see my post that was moved to the seminars section? Drop me a private note and let's talk.
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Old 12-18-2003, 11:18 PM   #32
Nafis Zahir
 
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Smile

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Nafis, I would really enjoy meeting and hopefully training with you some day. It would be interesting to share our perspectives in person. And I want to thank you for your post which inspired me to start this thread.

Keep those posts comming...

Ron
What post are you talking about? I also would like to train with you one day as well. Let's see what's available after the new year starts!

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Old 12-19-2003, 08:05 AM   #33
Ron Tisdale
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Hi Linda,

Well, I wouldn't mind someone addressing this in the annonymous forum if that's what they'd like to do, but I would resist moving this thread there. One of the halmarks of this thread is that the people participating sound like they are being honest, forthright, and POLITE about their views. Some people have felt comfortable enough to say that they don't think race should even be a consideration, and I appreciate that viewpoint.

Race is one of those issues that is often avoided at all costs, by everyone. So feelings and thoughts fester and turn sour from lack of acknowledgement and confrontation where appropropriate. This, in my opinion, is bad. I think we need forums like this one, where we can demonstrate that there ARE reasonable ways people can discuss issues WITHOUT vitriol.

I have had racist experiences in the past, and racist feelings and thoughts as well. I thank God I was raised to do my best to engage my mind, confront the issues, and move past hate. I think aikido has been a part of that for me...on a deeply personal level.

I'll give one example, and hope that the person I'm refering to will forgive me using him as the example. There's a gentleman in my dojo who has a Confederate license plate on his car. I have personally always found that symbol highly distastefull. A racist room mate in college (I say that for other reasons than the incident at hand) even hung a Confederate flag from my window just to get my goat in college. So I associate nothing positive with that symbol.

But to my dojo mate, it is a symbol of independence and the willingness to fight for your beliefs. Nothing more, nothing less. He is one of my best friends, I trust him implicitly on the mat, even in the most rigorous practice, and he knows and does work for my parents. I couldn't ask for a more faithfull friend.

My point is, somethings are not always as they might appear, good people can disagree about things that are really important to them, and this doesn't always require the letting of blood (figuratively or literaly).

I think I've rambled on long enough...more later.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-19-2003, 08:19 AM   #34
Ron Tisdale
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Quote:
Nafis Zahir wrote:
What post are you talking about? I also would like to train with you one day as well. Let's see what's available after the new year starts!
Oh man, is this embarrasing! I gave credit to the wrong person! It was Asim Hanif who wrote the post I was refering to in my original quote. My appologies Asim! And thank YOU for the inspiration.

Ron (must reduce cafine intake...)
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Old 12-19-2003, 09:14 AM   #35
AsimHanif
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No problem Ron. I just glad everyone is willing to talk about this. I do agree that this is very polite - an indication that there may be some discomfort about this.

funny thing - the other night I was talking to two members of my dojo about this issue. One is an influential member of my dojo and stated that he wanted me to do some demos with him in a particular AA area. I appreciated that he was quite honest in his intent to reach out to others. He also told me that I was the really the first person that he felt comfortable talking about race issues. Now that says a lot coming from someone with close to 30 years of experience in aikido.

My point is if we don't open up about this along all lines - race, gender, age, etc, it will continue to be an issue.

Craig - I didn't mean to convey that location was never an issue just not a major one. I'm sure I'm not the only who has made a committment to travel when necessary to find a good dojo. If you find a place you truly like and feel comfortable with, my guess is you will make the effort.
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Old 12-19-2003, 10:28 AM   #36
Ron Tisdale
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Thanks for your patience with me Asim!

One more thing...I do think the annonymous forum has a place for discussing issues where you don't want to identify a particular dojo or teacher. But in general I really see a problem with someone who calls themself a martial artist, but will not mark their words with their name. That just doesn't sit right with me. Just my opinion, which as we all know...ain't worth the price of tea in where ever [insert location of lowest tea price].

RT

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-27-2003, 04:57 PM   #37
AmyGilgan
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There was an interesting documentary about inner city martial arts on Freespeech TV (DishNetwork 9415) last month. I believe the film was called "Southside Warriors," but I am not certain. It focused on the African American community in the southside of Chicago. I wish I had more info about it.
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Old 12-28-2003, 05:15 AM   #38
Michael Karmon
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Re: Race and Aikido: Demographic

Hi,

1. Generaly speeking, minority and underprivileged groups will prefer boxing, basketball, baseball and other sports that may promise a swift horizontal mobility (don't I know fancy words). There is no fast fame and money in Aikido. Mike Tyson got there by the age of 19, Seteven Seagal practiced for 20 years in order to 'get there'.

2. When comming from a rough and violent neighbourhood you will go to what is percieved as the most effective and intimidating way. Aikido is not percieved to be as intimidating and effective as boxing.

Our dojo is very diverse, we have a VP of a software company and all the range of people white and collars, former taxi driver, unemployed, students etc. There is no corrolation between your standing in the dojo and your social position.

We also have Arab students which in the current political situation in Israel is a big thing. All students are treated with respect and we try very hard to keep non Aikido issues off the matt.

It is my believe that the martial arts specially Aikido are a way of commnicating between cultures and promoting positive connections between people of different origins and positions in life

Eat, Sleep, Exercise and watch out for cars
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Old 12-29-2003, 06:38 AM   #39
Amelia Smith
 
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This is a really interesting thread. I was having a hard time thinking of any African American women in aikido, too, then I remembered Lorraine DiAnne. She's a 6th dan, trained with Chiba Sensei in Japan, and has a dojo in Springfield, MA. So there are a few, but not very many. .... Wow! Just looked at the dojo website and she's been appointed shihan! Huge congratulations!!!

I grew up in a fairly homogenously white and liberal community, which is to say that intellectually, I was brought up very anti-racist, but with little exposure to people who were racially different from myself. I think that practicing with a variety of people in aikido has helped me get over that last, lingering bit of difference-anxiety.

--Amelia
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Old 12-29-2003, 01:05 PM   #40
AsimHanif
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Michael K, I have tried to properly digest your comments regarding the preference of boxing, basketball, etc by minority/underprevileged groups as opposed to aikido. This seems to be a comparison of aikido to sports. It is also a comparison of materialism to self improvement. Another element of your comments I am having trouble with is that you are generalizing minorities. I think this is the primary reason aikido is having trouble infusing the dojo with diversity. If aikido is a Budo what does "fast fame and money" have to do with anything? Implicit in your comments are the notion that minorities and the underprivleged are not interested in a moral code or harmonious living. I'm an AA raised in Harlem and the Bronx and I didn't come to aikido or karate for that matter to learn how to fight. I was seeking something else, although at the time I wasn't sure what that was.

My point is how are we marketing aikido? I agree that different people will be interested in different aspects of aikido. But the marketing of aikido's effectiveness will ultimately be dependent upon the person introducting it to perspective students.

BTW- Mike Tyson and Steven Seagal practiced their respective arts/trades for very different reasons.

Micheal I am really glad you posted your comments and I hope I am not coming off as disrespectful. I value your honesty. I only hope that you have the opportunity to have discussions with women, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, etc to truly ascertain their wants and needs.

Amelia - thank you so much for that input. That's great to hear.
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Old 12-29-2003, 10:41 PM   #41
Morpheus
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I haven't started actually study yet, won't be starting until February. I was studying Jujutsu but there were only two days available for training per week and it was constantly being pushed aside to deal with personal responsiblities and work. The time that practice started didn't help either.

I'm not into the new African American description thing. African American is non-descript, if someone is from Nigeria and becomes a US citizen, they don't call themselves African American. By the same token, if Pik Botha came here and became a citizen, what would you call him? He's African isn't he? As a matter of fact, he is more African than anyone born here. I prefer to be called black or Jamaican or Black American (which I am both and the latter, 1st generation). But I digress.

In terms of a lack of blacks in martial arts in the inner city, Aikido wouldn't be a real consideration for most. The majority of Americans were really introduced to martial arts when Bruce Lee hit the scene, not Toshiro Mifune.

Our next influence (blacks in particular) was Jim Kelly. Was he doing Jujutsu? No. Iaijutsu? No. Kenjutsu? No. Aikido? Definitely not. He was doing karate. Fancy, impractical high kicks. Looking cool. Looking tough.

The early eighties, we had Sho Kosugi. Everyone wanted to be a ninja. This is what we were fed by the movie industry.

Look at the websites out there, we (and I mean Americans in general now) were shown these things and this is one reason why there are so few blacks or other people of color in Aikido and jujutsu, etc. There are higher numbers in the Gendai American systems because the old timers saw Prof. Powell and decided to cross train or study Sanuces Ryu.

This is also why you don't see as many non-asians doing Tai Chi. In America, it's about marketing. Aikido is seeing more people of color these days because of the marketing in Seagal Sensei's films. He made it cool to be studying Aikido.

My personal influence, is (this is a long one) my wife's, cousin's, brother-in-law, Sensei Luqman Abdul Hakeem in Morocco.

For those who don't find Aikido, it's because of the lack of marketing. I'm not saying, go out and put up these flashy commercial ads like Tiger Schulmann, but going out into the community is a step. PAL programs, things like that. Just my thoughts....'Nuff Said

Qasim

**************************************
"If the enemy thinks of the mountains, attack like the sea; and if he thinks of the sea, attack like the mountains. - Miyamoto Musashi - 1584 - 1645
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:15 AM   #42
Michael Karmon
Dojo: Aikido Jerusalem
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Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
Michael K, I have tried to properly digest your comments regarding the preference of boxing, basketball, etc by minority/underprevileged groups as opposed to aikido. This seems to be a comparison of aikido to sports. It is also a comparison of materialism to self improvement.
We get offended when being defiend as 'sport' rather then an ART. But to outsiders there is little difference between Aikido and the sproting MA's and to that perception I am refering

Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
Another element of your comments I am having trouble with is that you are generalizing minorities. I think this is the primary reason aikido is having trouble infusing the dojo with diversity. If aikido is a Budo what does "fast fame and money" have to do with anything? Implicit in your comments are the notion that minorities and the underprivleged are not interested in a moral code or harmonious living. I'm an AA raised in Harlem and the Bronx and I didn't come to aikido or karate for that matter to learn how to fight. I was seeking something else, although at the time I wasn't sure what that was.
Never did I imagine that my remarks can be interpreted as me suggesting that striving towards self improvement has anything to do with race or money.

I believe Aikido to be extremly efficient but for someone uninformed, needing to deal with violence in school and on the street and needing to look 'macho', "Harmony" and "Belending" can sound like a pile of B-S, but "Kick, jab, punch kick" may sound more to the point.

But let us not be too PC, you will be hard pressed to find a white, upper-middle class, top ranking boxers. Is it that "white boys can't"? It is a socio-economic thing with much wider aspects.

Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
My point is how are we marketing aikido? I agree that different people will be interested in different aspects of aikido. But the marketing of aikido's effectiveness will ultimately be dependent upon the person introducting it to perspective students.
I totaly aggree, marketing is the key word. The problem is, it takes a long time to persuade practicing Aikidoka that not using force is the best way. It will take a genious to convince non Aikidoka.

Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
BTW- Mike Tyson and Steven Seagal practiced their respective arts/trades for very different reasons.
True, but if I am a hungry, talanted youth from the inner-city that can not afford a ticket to the beach, let alone Tokyo, who will be my role model?

How many children grow up wishing to be Michael Jordan and how many want to be Condollisa Rise?

It is the same all over the world.

Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
Micheal I am really glad you posted your comments and I hope I am not coming off as disrespectful. I value your honesty. I only hope that you have the opportunity to have discussions with women, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, etc to truly ascertain their wants and needs.
Thank you for your kind words. I repeat myself, The color of your skin and your credit status has nothing to do with what kind of person you are and to where you aspire. For me, Aikido is a bridge of unifying people beyond trivial matters such as race, creed, gender, social status.

Last edited by Michael Karmon : 12-30-2003 at 02:22 AM.

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Old 12-30-2003, 11:57 AM   #43
L. Camejo
 
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Interesting comments.

Coming from a Caribbean perspective, often I see that any difference in those who stick it out with Aikido and those who try it and move on or train till they can go out and kotegaeshi someone and then quit is more a matter of general education level instead of race per se.

Mostly, those who tend to stick with Aikido training in our dojo are engineers, doctors or other professionals, or have otherwise been folks who have trained in other MA and can appreciate Aikido principles from that perspective.

Being one who some might say have grown up in our Caribbean equivalent of "de ghetto", I have seen where the "moral code" of Aikido does not apppeal to the majority who seek the quick and (relatively) easy method of "destroy the enemy and his backup as quickly as possible". To tell some of these folks that destruction of the ego is a fundamental part of Aikido training results in being a major turnoff, since ego and pride (mostly gang-based) are the only things these folks DO place some value on, and therefore try to protect as best they can.

So, I would not exactly say that this is a racial thing, at least in our context, but more of an educational/economic thing, since these folks have never had the option of being exposed to these types of values/thought paradigms at a time when it may have done them some good. Of course the level and quality of one's education is greatly related to your income level in this case. So the lack or absence of "certain groups" in Aikido may not relate so much to one's race, but to its appeal to people, regardless of race, who may have much more pressing concerns, such as sheer survival on their mind.

Michael K. is correct in saying one's credit status has nothing to do with where you aspire to be, but unless one is aware of exactly what those choices may be, the obvious, immediate and obtainable often becomes the most popular choice.

Just 2 cents.

L.C.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 12-31-2003, 09:02 AM   #44
Ron Tisdale
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Quote:
I'm not into the new African American description thing.
No need to be. I appreciate and understand why some have difficulty with it. I myself accept the use of Black, Afro-American, African American, Negro, Jerk...[cough, ok not the last one].
Quote:
African American is non-descript, if someone is from Nigeria and becomes a US citizen, they don't call themselves African American. By the same token, if Pik Botha came here and became a citizen, what would you call him? He's African isn't he? As a matter of fact, he is more African than anyone born here.
Well, personally I find it very descriptive of my status. I have African ancestry, and it plays a prominant role in my psychological and sociological make up in a variety of ways. I am also an American citizen. As it happens, I also spent a year living in Africa, but that is not the real issue.

I do have friends that are from Nigeria and other African countries that live here in the US. They refer to themselves in a number of different ways. But there is a crucial link to the continent that they have that I can never have...they were (in most cases) born into a tightly woven specifc culture from the continent. But their condition does not negate mine.

As to Pik Botha, well...I have mixed feelings on that one. I'll defer to the South African gov. (current, not past). There was a reconciliation council, and a **LOT** of sins were forgiven. A lot of water under the bridge. In my opinion, my personal feelings about whites living in Africa, calling themselves African, doing despicable things to the people indiginous to the continent, and then cutting and running when the going got tough for them, are probably not worth voicing.

On the other hand, I personally know Kenyan citizens who happen to be white, that I most definately consider to be African. Go figure...life is full of contridictions.
Quote:
I prefer to be called black or Jamaican or Black American (which I am both and the latter, 1st generation). But I digress.
Each man has the right to name himself. Welcome to the discussion! and thank you for your views.

Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 12-31-2003 at 09:08 AM.

Ron Tisdale
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St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-31-2003, 11:38 AM   #45
kironin
 
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Quote:
Uriah Gardner (Morpheus) wrote:
I

In terms of a lack of blacks in martial arts in the inner city, Aikido wouldn't be a real consideration for most. The majority of Americans were really introduced to martial arts when Bruce Lee hit the scene, not Toshiro Mifune.

Our next influence (blacks in particular) was Jim Kelly. Was he doing Jujutsu? No. Iaijutsu? No. Kenjutsu? No. Aikido? Definitely not. He was doing karate. Fancy, impractical high kicks. Looking cool. Looking tough.

The early eighties, we had Sho Kosugi. Everyone wanted to be a ninja. This is what we were fed by the movie industry.

...
Actually, a pretty good point.

When I consider that our club size is around 20 while the typical karate or tae kwon do school in the area has several hundred students. In a city of 3.5 million, the total number of aikido students in a 60 mile radius combined doesn't amount to more than one of the many large karate schools at best.

as far as general culture goes, we are not exactly on the radar screen. I can say this is definitely true in Texas.

but as I drive around the city I see Karate and Tae Kwon Do store fronts everywhere.

If I win the lottery, I'll be happy to blow thousands of dollars a month on advertising.

Otherwise, people of whatever racial backgrounds with reasons peculiar to themselves are just going to have to hunt us down. Most of our walkins find us by the website because we are the only aikido school in the particular area they live. The next closest one being at least 10 miles away.

So the question in my mind is there a difference in cities on the east and west coast with a greater density of dojos ? Perhaps it's still not enough to overcome Hollywood and the general cultural impression of martial arts.

Perhaps it's because aikido schools are less likely to offer kid's programs ?

as far as Aikido in Hollywood goes,

we have mutant ninja turtles,

pasty white boy Steven Seagal who runs kind of limply and tries to act like he can talk trash

(don't think so!), long haired white boy Lorezno Lamas I think on the Renegade TV show, and finally Philip Akin (5th dan Yoshinkan) being a trusted side kick and boxing gym owner on the Highlander TV show where no evidence of his aikido skills was ever displayed as far as I can recall.

an now Last Samurai with Tom Cruise.

Maybe Stan Pranin can get Laura Hilllenbrand insterested in writing a book on Morihei Ueshiba's life ?

Craig
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Old 12-31-2003, 03:00 PM   #46
Dan Rubin
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Of course, when wondering about dojo demographics, the student population should be compared to the population in the immediate area. For example, the concern shouldn't just be about how many African-American students are members (or walk through the door), but rather about how many students per 100,000 population nearby. When figuring it this way, in some places one or two African-American students may exceed the Caucasian representation in the dojo.

Once any student first enters the dojo, the social atmosphere has as much influence on the student's retention as the art itself. Thus, the typical sole woman will be really self-conscious, as will the typical sole non-white ethnic minority. Of course, this is often true of many other sorts of clubs or, for that matter, neighborhoods. The more effort a dojo puts into making these individuals feel welcome, the more self-conscious some of them will become. And this is in addition to pressure from such students' peers, who may question his or her motives for joining such an organization. I would think that a Caucasian male who joins an otherwise all-female or all-minority dojo faces the same challenges.

In my opinion, America is not a racist country (although there are plenty of racists in it). But it certainly is a race-conscious country. Ironically, many of our efforts to reduce racism have made us even more race-conscious. It takes a confident individual to stick around long enough to overcome that (assuming that it's possible to overcome it).

No wonder some dojos that have tried to increase their minority representation have given up.

As for the art itself, if aikido is not as attractive to certain audiences as punch-kick martial arts, then perhaps demonstrations to those audiences should stress the non-fighting benefits of aikido. If aikido demonstrations can't compete with punch-kick demonstrations in the fighting category, perhaps we should not try to compete that way. Rather, we should put the burden on punch-kick schools to demonstrate how their art teaches one how to win without fighting.

Unfortunately, few people want to win without fighting. They want to win fights.

Dan Rubin

Last edited by Dan Rubin : 12-31-2003 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 12-31-2003, 08:22 PM   #47
AsimHanif
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 495
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Dan - excellent points!!!

Instead of encouraging the so called fighting aspects of aikido I don't know why there is not as much emphasis on the spiritual aspect. I see a whole lot of churches and temples in the innner city and they have large congregations so it leads me to believe that there are people out there looking for something else. If you are blessed with a charismatic martial style then all the more better.

But again as Dan said - it's really about how we make others feel once they do enter our door.
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Old 01-01-2004, 01:52 AM   #48
Michael Karmon
Dojo: Aikido Jerusalem
Location: Jerusalem Israel
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 56
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Quote:
Asim Hanif (AsimHanif) wrote:
Instead of encouraging the so called fighting aspects of aikido I don't know why there is not as much emphasis on the spiritual aspect. .
I beg to differ on this point. If any, the relative lack of popularity comes from the perception of Aikido making you a wimp, push-over, hippie, geek with all that 'spiritual' mumbo-jumbo.

People want to learn how to fight, excersize well and have fun. 'Spiritual' is so un-cool and such a turn-off for so many people that it is a wonder we get any new students at all.

The traditional way was to teach newbees the budo as a craft. Do this in this fashion and then learn that. Only after the student has got to a given level of proficiency did the teacher introduse the ART part of the budo

Karate and TKD have also a sound Zen foudation and a strong spiritual aspect but they are correct by saing "first learn how to side-kick properly before we philosophize on it". We too should do the same and "Spiritual" ideas should be introduced on microscopic amounts until the student has reached Kyo 2/1.

From the 'Don King marketing and promotion school' point of view , I would give a demonstration under the title of "How to disarm, dislocate, dispatch and dismember multiple attackers the Aikido style" and then chalange anyone in the crowd for dual. This should be done in order to get attention and publicity and people in the door. O-Sensei had no problem demonstrating in a baseball stadium or chalanging other MA experts in order to promote his art.

Practice, perspiration and proficiency are the food of the spirit, talking is not.

Eat, Sleep, Exercise and watch out for cars
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:43 AM   #49
aoerstroem
Dojo: Renshin Aikido Dojo, Copenhagen, Denmark
Location: Copenhagen
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 18
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(First of all, English is not my first language, so if I use terms that are incorrect or perhaps appear rude, I assure you that it is not intentional)

In Copenhagen, Denmark where I live the situation is similar.

Even though we dont have many people of African heritage, we do have a big amount of people of Arabian and Middle Eastern heritage.

The tendency here as far as I have seen is that Japanese martial arts, especially the "softer" and more philosophical ones, are mostly studied by "native" Danes (caucasian), whereas the people of Arabian heritage seem to prefer Wing Tsun, Tae Kwon Do, various Kung Fu and other "hard" arts.

Why this is the case I don't know, but there are of course exceptions. In our dojo we have a student with arabian heritage, and he seems to enjoy and respect the art just as much as the rest of us.
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Old 01-01-2004, 07:28 PM   #50
Josh Bisker
Dojo: Oberlin Aikikai, and Renshinkan London
Location: Oberlin, OH
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 74
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Hiya,

I'm not sure if this is appropriately within the thread heading, but to throw in two cents...

I rarely meet other jews on the mat. I think that this relates to the kind of demographic inconsistency that you have been talking about here.

The abscence of jewish training partners not been a huge deal for the most part; i have never been a part of an insular jewish community so there's no kind of culture shock going on, but you know sometimes it would be comforting and welcoming to have that shared affiliation and understaning with other people in the dojo.

I don't think that it has to do with my location. Sure i train in the midwest (i know, a sweeping generalization and only somewhat true) but i have been in other dojos in other parts of the country and often feel like a member of a significantly marginalized cultural minority in Aikido. Other people had mentioned high-ranking African American instructors that have been role models for them, and certainly i have found a corollary for myself - David Goldberg Sensei and Guy Haskell Sensei are both big inspirations (Haskell sensei was actually a jewish studies professor at my college back in the day). This disparity has not been something that has disuaded me from training or from entering a dojo community, but there are times when it does make me feel uncomfortable.

Have other people faced this same feeling, of being the only jewish aikidist on the floor?

-josh
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