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04-09-2006, 11:00 PM
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#26
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Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
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Re: Suwari waza
Quote:
Dirk Hanss wrote:
P.S. it is funny, that some people complain about aikidoka not knowing about how to fight on the ground and others asking, why one should go down in training.
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Hey Dirk - I know that that comment was made toungue in cheek but still feel it should be pointed out that there is a difference beween suwari waza and fighting on the ground.
I am a big fan of suwari waza. I think it's a great tool for improving tachi waza and learning body alignment. But it should always be pointed out that suwari waza is not newaza.
And of course there is the injury question. Not the "hey look joe just hurt his knee doing that one suwari waza technique" type injury but more the "I've been doing Aikido for 15 years, how come my knees feel like crap" injury.
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"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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04-10-2006, 02:37 AM
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#27
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Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,031
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Re: Suwari waza
I`m surprised no one`s mentioned it, but practising in suwari waza is an excellent way of developing power through your hips. Working in suwari waza you have to use your hips to move, in doing technique this way, you can then transfer this movement to standing techniques which helps increase the power in your technique.
rgds
Bryan
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A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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04-10-2006, 03:38 AM
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#28
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Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
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Re: Suwari waza
what bryan said. Also helps to develop a general feeling of centre (which some would argue is the same thing)
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"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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04-10-2006, 04:33 AM
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#29
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Suwari waza
Hi tristan,
The dojo I train at here in America does a lot of suwari waza, but it's a pretty traditional dojo from what I understand. I find if I do it regularly and stretch well before-hand, I don't get knee injuries. Suwari has helped me to move from my center a bit better and while for all I know it could be a relatively weak position to be in, it's fun to be a smaller target whipping around low to the ground sometimes. You certainly have more mobility on your knees than on your back or stomach, making it easier to dodge around...but finding a place that won't scrape up your knees can be tough. I can roll on pavement fairly well if it's also pretty clear, but when I've pushed off with my knees it quickly became painfull, regardless.
I like hanmihandachi for what seems to be a good exercise in learning about how to establish kuzushi from different heights and ranges.
Take care!
Matt
Last edited by mathewjgano : 04-10-2006 at 04:35 AM.
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Gambarimashyo!
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04-10-2006, 04:38 AM
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#30
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Suwari waza
...perhaps suwari is also a good way to simulate closer-quarters interactions?
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Gambarimashyo!
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04-10-2006, 06:02 AM
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#31
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Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 470
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Re: Suwari waza
Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
Hey Dirk - I know that that comment was made toungue in cheek but still feel it should be pointed out that there is a difference beween suwari waza and fighting on the ground.
I am a big fan of suwari waza. I think it's a great tool for improving tachi waza and learning body alignment. But it should always be pointed out that suwari waza is not newaza.
And of course there is the injury question. Not the "hey look joe just hurt his knee doing that one suwari waza technique" type injury but more the "I've been doing Aikido for 15 years, how come my knees feel like crap" injury.
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Michael,
for me there are two reasons to train suwariwaza/hanmi handachi.
1.) If you pin someone (in seiza) and you are unexpectedly attack by a second person it is a typical hanmi handachi situation (traditionally rather being trapped in a japanese house).
2.) Suwari waza is a way to fight on groundlevel and avoid lying on the ground (newaza), being unprotected against additional opponents.
OK the other arguments are accepted, too.
The injuries are to be taken seriously and I still wonder, how millions of Japanese and other Asian folks can sit for hours in seiza over 70 years without having these problems and our knees degenerate after a few sessions of suwari waza on soft aikido mats.
Are these genetic differences or should we only force our children to move more on knees in younger years?
Regards Dirk
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04-10-2006, 12:27 PM
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#32
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Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
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Re: Suwari waza
Yes suwariwaza is a good technique for developing hip movement. I think it is the whole point of doing it...that and posture and balance.
I do it all the time in groundfighting and BJJ...you have to if you are doing jiujitsu correctly! We just don't duck walk around the mat 100 times!
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04-10-2006, 05:06 PM
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#33
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Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
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Re: Suwari waza
Well, if you can't sit and stand "properly", how can you hope to defend yourself?
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Ignatius
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04-10-2006, 07:14 PM
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#34
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Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
Offline
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Re: Suwari waza
Quote:
Dirk Hanss wrote:
.
2.) Suwari waza is a way to fight on groundlevel and avoid lying on the ground (newaza), being unprotected against additional opponents.
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I personally don't think it's particularly effective as a ground fighting strategy. Most of the time if you can get to seiza you can get up altogether.
Quote:
OK the other arguments are accepted, too.
The injuries are to be taken seriously and I still wonder, how millions of Japanese and other Asian folks can sit for hours in seiza over 70 years without having these problems and our knees degenerate after a few sessions of suwari waza on soft aikido mats.
Are these genetic differences or should we only force our children to move more on knees in younger years?
Regards Dirk
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My guess is that there's a difference between sitting down to eat and talk and occasionally knee walking from here to there, and doing hours of technique involving constant movement.
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"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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04-11-2006, 03:52 AM
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#35
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Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Offline
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Re: Suwari waza
Suwari waza is merely a training tool for learning how to do aikido "correctly". It's got nothing to do with groundfighting. In fact, it's got nothing to do with fighting at all, much less responses to specified attacks. In fact, if you can do aikido from seiza - WITHOUT MOVING YOUR FEET, then you can do aikido standing up, lying down, sitting in a chair, or with your back up against a wall.
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Ignatius
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04-11-2006, 04:56 AM
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#36
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Dojo: aikishurendojo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
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Re: Suwari waza
hi, in my opinion swari and hanmi hantachi waza were used as indoor techniques, in the past ( and even today ) when indoor people used to stay in seiza and from that posicion they should be able to deal with any attack. in the present besides the same utilization, swari waza and hanmi hantachi waza are useful for developing strong hips and good balance.( sorry about my bad english )
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04-18-2006, 12:27 PM
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#37
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Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati
Location: Cincinnati
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 52
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Re: Suwari waza
Hello from Cincinnati, We use suwariwaza alot. I agree that it is great for dealing with uke that are bigger, and it helps with proper posture. My Sensei says the answer is in the hips. Hanmihandachi is huge.
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