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Old 10-18-2010, 12:26 AM   #1
Chris Farnham
Dojo: Aikido of Champlain Valley/Hamamatsu Aikidokai/Aikido Shidokai
Location: Hamamatsu, Japan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 97
United_States
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two times and switch, or four times and switch?

When I was in the USA I only trained at two dojos; one USAF and the other unaffiliated. I spent most of my time at the USAF dojo and while we attended many seminars they were all USAF seminars. During that time I always saw people changing roles every four times and never saw any different. Then I moved to Japan two years ago started to train at dojos that switch every two times. Based on my experience here I developed the theory that dojos that trace their lineage through Hombu dojo change every four times and dojos that trace their roots through Iwama change every two times because I have been to both places and the other dojos that I have trained at here seemed to fit that hypothesis.
However, yesterday I went to a very large seminar in Nagoya with Waka sensei where I trained with a number of people whose technique had a very hombu feel to me but wanted to switch roles every two times so...

Now I am curious what other people do. What is the practice at your dojo and what is your lineage? I am also curious about non Aikikai folks but most of my experience is with Aikikai Aikido
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:50 AM   #2
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

Quote:
Chris Farnham wrote: View Post
When I was in the USA I only trained at two dojos; one USAF and the other unaffiliated. I spent most of my time at the USAF dojo and while we attended many seminars they were all USAF seminars. During that time I always saw people changing roles every four times and never saw any different. Then I moved to Japan two years ago started to train at dojos that switch every two times. Based on my experience here I developed the theory that dojos that trace their lineage through Hombu dojo change every four times and dojos that trace their roots through Iwama change every two times because I have been to both places and the other dojos that I have trained at here seemed to fit that hypothesis.
However, yesterday I went to a very large seminar in Nagoya with Waka sensei where I trained with a number of people whose technique had a very hombu feel to me but wanted to switch roles every two times so...

Now I am curious what other people do. What is the practice at your dojo and what is your lineage? I am also curious about non Aikikai folks but most of my experience is with Aikikai Aikido
4 times and switch here, Aikikai, Tokyo. But that is just a custom, not a law set in stone. Nobody raises an eyebrow if you it differently sometimes.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:23 AM   #3
amoeba
Dojo: Aikido Netzwerk
Location: Düsseldorf, NRW
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 80
Germany
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

We're Aikikai-associated, following mostly Endo-sensei and Tissier-sensei. Normally we switch every four times, barring special cases (for example, when you want to practice three different variants: then you do six), and training in groups of three: then it's two times and switch.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:38 AM   #4
Rabih Shanshiry
 
Rabih Shanshiry's Avatar
Location: Boston/MA
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 197
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

We do two times and switch.

For ai hanmi techniques, we do right side then left side then switch. For gyaku hanmi techniques, we do left side then right side then switch. (From the perspective of shi'te).

I am with a branch dogo of the Doshinkan organization whose lineage is Yoshinkan. Not sure if everyone in our organization does it the same way.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #5
ninjaqutie
 
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Dojo: Searching for a new home
Location: Delaware (<3 still in Oregon!)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,002
United_States
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

Four mainly, but if there is a group of three, we usually do two.

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:03 AM   #6
tim evans
Location: The lake
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 203
United_States
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

For us 4 times but if were working 3 in a group we may do two times or even a line.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:41 AM   #7
Fred Little
Dojo: NJIT Budokai
Location: State Line NJ/NY
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 632
United_States
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

For seminars with talkative instructors who only allow brief interludes for practice between successive lecture/demos, two times to insure that both partners get a chance to practice.

For regular practice, four times.

For serious practice, ten times.

For special occasion very serious practice, one hundred eight times.

Best,

Fred Little

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Old 10-19-2010, 10:29 AM   #8
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 688
Israel
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

For me, asses the situation, and decide accordingly:

If Sensei is about to give us long time to train (normal):

Working with a real beginner who learns the technique first time, do 3 - 5 times of single side, let him try 5-10 times, repeat ~3 times let him retry until he grasps the technique or needs another "demonstration".

Working with non-Yundasha - Kohai (know the technique, need practice and insensitive to detail), do 4-6 times, then switch.

Working with Yundasha Kohai or "equals" (know the technique, need practice and rather sensitive to detail as Tori and Uke), train 5-10 times, while finding focal points to improve (switch sides or not according to focus - I am not symmetrical), switch, he does the same

Working with Yundasha - Sempai - follow his rules/comments regarding repetition, focus and corrections.

As a rule, it is the Sempai role to let the Kohai practice more and not "take advantage" of him. Since normally Sempai determines the switches.

If sensei only allocates short time (seminars and such) - follow instinct and adjust, this is not a serious practice time anyhow, just an opportunity to find something new to examine in depth later.

Amir

P.S.
I practice Korindo Aikido in the Israeli branch

Last edited by Amir Krause : 10-19-2010 at 10:30 AM. Reason: adding club
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:55 AM   #9
David Maidment
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
United Kingdom
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

Depends on the number of people in the group. For partners it's usually two times (if more 'advanced' students, left and right and maybe two on each side), if it's a group of three it's usually four goes, a group of four there's usually thee goes (so everyone gets to be uke) and any larger groups (such as during seminars) tend to also be three goes just to enable everyone to have the opportunity to be nage a few times.

"Never escalate a battle unless forced to do so by your enemy" - Zordon
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:05 AM   #10
Randall Lim
Dojo: Tendoryu Aikido Singapore
Location: Singapore
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 94
Singapore
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Re: two times and switch, or four times and switch?

Quote:
Chris Farnham wrote: View Post
When I was in the USA I only trained at two dojos; one USAF and the other unaffiliated. I spent most of my time at the USAF dojo and while we attended many seminars they were all USAF seminars. During that time I always saw people changing roles every four times and never saw any different. Then I moved to Japan two years ago started to train at dojos that switch every two times. Based on my experience here I developed the theory that dojos that trace their lineage through Hombu dojo change every four times and dojos that trace their roots through Iwama change every two times because I have been to both places and the other dojos that I have trained at here seemed to fit that hypothesis.
However, yesterday I went to a very large seminar in Nagoya with Waka sensei where I trained with a number of people whose technique had a very hombu feel to me but wanted to switch roles every two times so...

Now I am curious what other people do. What is the practice at your dojo and what is your lineage? I am also curious about non Aikikai folks but most of my experience is with Aikikai Aikido
My club (Tendoryu Aikido) does the "4 Times & Switch" approach,
though I would be flexible enough to vary from this convention when I am partnering a beginner (who may learn better by other approaches).

Other PERSONAL approaches can be:

(1) "2 Times & Switch"

(2) "2 Times Same Side & Switch"

(3) "4 Times Same Side & Switch"

(4) "8 Times Same Side & Switch"

However, when I comes to demonstrations, I still stick to the conventional "4 Times & Switch".
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