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05-23-2012, 02:15 PM
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#26
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Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
Bet the screwheads in your house all have traces of cream cheese on them too
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Well, that about lox this thread up!
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05-23-2012, 02:37 PM
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#27
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Dojo: www.pbjjc.com
Location: Long Island, NY
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
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05-23-2012, 08:13 PM
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#28
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Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
That is total nonsense and makes a mockery of thousands of years of martial knowledge.
Dan
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I am sorry you judge me so harshly.
Be well,
Chris
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05-23-2012, 08:35 PM
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#29
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Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Howard Popkin wrote:
Chris,
I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.
I can't swing a hammer, but I can call a carpenter.
Also, I thought I put the jew in aikijujutsu
Howard
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I love your humor. And I also greatly respect your posts and depth in the traditional arts.
My theory Was not meant to be simplistic or flippant.
Most atemi as Edmund Parker experienced it, were either hammers, whips or thrusts. Even most
#1 strikes with sticks and sabers resemble the hammer strike.
I am a Gardner and do allot of building with a hammer and nails. Posture, form, positioning, relaxation, breath, intent and focus make big differences. Doing subtle motions within ones posture enhances the end result. If your form works on a 4 inch nail, can you trust it on a 6 inch nail? How about a sledge hammer on a railroad spike? How about hitting the bell and winning the prize consistently at the carnival. Some Asian artists have slapped a 4 inch nail into wood with an unprotected palm.
In like manner, thrusts have often been tested by, among other things, blowing out candles whether through the tips of your fingers or the end of a staff. Whips (back fists and #2 strikes/cuts are tested in similar ways.
Each is a demonstration of some skill perfected and tested on non human matter. Each skill can demonstrate what I have experienced as internal power practices.
It is becoming rather clear to me that what folks are referring to as IS/IP is a very specific practice that has been "trademarked" by a specific group of teachers.
I honor such knowledge and look forward to experiencing it as the opportunity arises.
Namaste,
Chris
Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 05-23-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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05-23-2012, 08:59 PM
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#30
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Dojo: Aikido of Del Mar
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 155
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Seng-Yew Ong wrote:
For those of you who have developed Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP), I'm wondering how it applies to non-humans, i.e. to inanimate objects (such as when lifting a heavy table/rock) and to animals (for instance when 'play-wresting' with a large dog, primate or bear).
I know this question may sound a little bizarre, but I'm wondering about the generalisability and/or limitations of IS/IP. And perhaps whether there are variations of the of IS/IP?
Thanks in advance.
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Not at all! Some of us have mused on the primate question. See thread: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20082 pointing to link: http://youtu.be/Rgurbo_4bqg
As to limitations, I recommend not using IS/IP techniques against (with?) inanimate objects not because I know much about IS/IP but because I have some assumptions about inanimate objects.
Regards,
Anthony
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05-23-2012, 09:27 PM
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#31
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Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote:
Some Asian artists have slapped a 4 inch nail into wood with an unprotected palm.
Chris
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must be me since i am asian and can bitch slap a 4 inch nail into my palm and have a wood at the same time. it would hurt a lot, but with the right kind of tonics (and gin), i could do it.
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05-23-2012, 09:46 PM
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#32
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Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
Offline
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Phi Truong wrote:
must be me since i am asian and can bitch slap a 4 inch nail into my palm and have a wood at the same time. it would hurt a lot, but with the right kind of tonics (and gin), i could do it.
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Well, if the wood has been well treated, you might employ little monk Nupchen's "Lamp for the Eyes in Contemplation" practice by emanating light from the tip. See: manuscript PT699 from the recent excavations at Dunhuang.
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05-23-2012, 10:14 PM
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#33
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote:
I am sorry you judge me so harshly.
Be well,
Chris
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Hi Chris
No sir, I'm not judging you either directly or even by inference.
I was discounting an idea you expressed, dude.
Two very different things.
Cheers
Dan
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05-23-2012, 10:20 PM
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#34
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Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
Offline
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Hi Chris
No sir, I'm not judging you either directly or even by inference.
I was discounting an idea you expressed, dude.
Two very different things.
Cheers
Dan
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Correction Dan,
I am sorry you discounted my idea so thoroughly.
Be well.
Chris
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05-24-2012, 10:22 AM
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#35
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Location: Seattle
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 934
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Re: Jewjutsu
Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it).
Some film:
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLyEH3-k4U
#3
#4
Ellis Amdur
Last edited by Ellis Amdur : 05-24-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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05-24-2012, 11:49 AM
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#36
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Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
Offline
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Re: Jewjutsu
Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it).
Some film:
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLyEH3-k4U
#3
#4
Ellis Amdur
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You got to just love a man who mastered Jew Jitsu !
Marc Abrams
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05-24-2012, 12:05 PM
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#37
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,035
Offline
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Re: Jewjutsu
There's a nice little biography of Joseph Greenstein, AKA "The Mighty Atom":
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...h_L_Greenstein
Some of the tales may or not be true, of course, but it is fun to read.
And don't forget Slim "the Hammer Man" Farmar, Greenstein's only student-protege:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96pKz...eature=related
In turn, the contemporary representative of this kind of body work (called "isometric strength training") is Dennis Rogers. Slim Farmar being his mentor. Rogers had an online "museum" dedicated to the Mighty Atom, but it appears to be defunct. He has a website/forum -- Tough Guy -- that still appears to be somewhat active:
http://toughguynews.com/author/dennisrogers/
Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it).
Some film:
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLyEH3-k4U
#3
#4
Ellis Amdur
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05-24-2012, 06:26 PM
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#38
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Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Offline
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Re: Jewjutsu
Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it)
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Beating nazis and the Klan with baseball bats! Fantastic!
I used to work for a hell of a karate man named Ron Epstein who joked about using jew-jutsu. He was a direct student of Mas Oyama. He's still out there kicking around, from what I hear. Nearly 80 now, I think.
Thanks.
David
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"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu
"Eternity forever!"
www.esotericorange.com
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05-24-2012, 07:38 PM
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#39
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Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
Offline
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
This thread is getting curiouser and more colorful by the minute. I love it.
I was a bit confused, however, by the statement that my idea about the hammer made a mockery of a thousand years of martial knowledge.
As for me, I was thinking of way more than a thousand years ago with Arjuna in the Mahabarata, who was trained by Drona - a well respected hammer man. Then I recalled that Indra created the cosmos with a hammer. So I did a google of the subject.
Types of Hammer Gods--The Aryan Indra--Chinese World Shaper--Scottish Hunting Deity--Egyptian Artisan God--Greek and Roman Thunder Gods--Thor--Hittite, Assyrian, and other types--A Wail from Palestine--Babylonian Influence--Indra's Indian Character--A Nature Myth--Drought Demon slain--Gods and Demons in conflict--Origin of Indra's Thunderbolt--Demons' plot to destroy Universe--Babylonian Creation Myth--How Indra Shaped the World--Elfin Artisans in India, Egypt, and Germania--Babylonian Artisan God--Indra the Harvest God--The God of Battle--Comparison with Thor--Aryan Cattle Lifters--Indra's Queen and Attendants.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/iml/iml06.htm
Surely, if men attribute power to gods via the emblem of a hammer, they also look to martial prowess and specialized power as men wield them also. Ans some of these stories test men's internal power by hitting inanimate things (like rocks).
I also found this:
The Nitiprakasika (Hindi treatise on warfare) divides Indian weapons between 3 categories.
1. the thrown (mukta) including the Parasu (battle Axe)
2) the not thrown (amukta) including a masundi (eight sided cudgel and a Mudgara was a staff in the shape of a hammer)
3) those delivered by mantras (mantramukta) which included the Brahmastra (phurba-like stick)
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vi...imanas_11a.htm
So, maybe I misunderstood how I have made a mockery of internal power and the use of a hammer....
How so, please advise.....
with respect,
Chris
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05-24-2012, 07:51 PM
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#40
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Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Offline
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
You've hit the nail on the head......
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05-24-2012, 09:25 PM
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#41
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
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Re: Jewjutsu
Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote:
You got to just love a man who mastered Jew Jitsu !
Marc Abrams
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But no man has mastered Jewish Mother Aikido (TM) as revealed to me by Sosueme Sensei.
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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05-24-2012, 09:35 PM
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#42
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Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
Offline
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Re: Jewjutsu
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
But no man has mastered Jewish Mother Aikido (TM) as revealed to me by Sosueme Sensei.
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I wanna train in that. Definitely.
What's the difference between a Jewish Mother Aikidoka and a rottweiler?
Eventually, the Rottweiler let's go......
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05-25-2012, 02:09 AM
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#43
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
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Re: Jewjutsu
Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote:
I wanna train in that. Definitely.
What's the difference between a Jewish Mother Aikidoka and a rottweiler?
Eventually, the Rottweiler let's go......
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Oh my, Jewish Mother Aikido is nothing like that my dear, I wouldn't hurt a fly .... if we ever meet on the mat I shall be delighted to demo
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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05-25-2012, 12:40 PM
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#44
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Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
Offline
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact
Darn....
All that time I spent looking up a good Jewish mother joke.....
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