Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Spiritual

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-16-2003, 01:02 PM   #1
Ari Bolden
 
Ari Bolden's Avatar
Dojo: Victoria Jujitsu Academy
Location: Victoria BC
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 67
Canada
Offline
Without me, there is no aikido.

This post was spawned by the "how spiritual one" and "see the light" post in particular.

It can be of no doubt that O sensei was a mysterious man trying to incorporate religious and spiritual beliefs (Omoto kyo religion) into his martial system.

It is documented that he use to read poetry in class and teach the foundations of the universe to his students(READ: the Spiritual Foundations Of Aikido by William Gleason).

O Sensei was also a man of contradictions. He said "WITHOUT ME, THERE IS NO AIKIDO."

It is difficult to understand what he meant by such a statement.

He then also said "Aikido comes from within."

After the founder's death, did Aikido fragment into many different schools or GROW into many different schools (Styles). Depends on how you look at it...

Food for thought...

Cheers
Ari

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2003, 02:35 PM   #2
BKimpel
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
Offline
We have all heard both the "for" and "against" argument whether Aikido is a unique art form or merely synthesized from others (particularly Daito-Ryu Jujutsu).

I look at it this way, while someone can certainly claim to be the person who "taught" Elvis how to sing (i.e. voice coach, or singing lessons), and it may help them gain some fame -- learning from them will not make you Elvis.

So did O-sensei really mean, "without me, there *would be* no Aikido"? I think so.

Is he right? I think so.

While many other people had many of the same influences, background, education, environment, etc. none of them became Elvis. Only Elvis had it in him to create his music, and only Morihei Ueshiba had it in him to create Aikido.

I believe the "Aikido comes from within." Statement was a response. He wanted people to reach within themselves to create their destiny (that's what Budo is all about), without blinding worshipping him as deity.

Just my opinion though.

Bruce

Bruce Kimpel
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2003, 12:12 PM   #3
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,902
United_States
Offline
IMHO, O'Sensei pointed the way so without him there would be no Aikido as we know it. Yet, part of his pinting was for each of us to find it inward. In a world of external dependency, we often need someone externally to remind us to look internally and to make the art our own.

While there is only 26 letter in the English alphabet, their are many gifted and unique writers.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2003, 01:30 PM   #4
pointy
Dojo: aikido of park slope
Location: brooklyn, ny USA
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 62
Offline
he also said something like "i am the universe."

i think it's safe to say that without the universe there would be no aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2003, 01:59 PM   #5
Ari Bolden
 
Ari Bolden's Avatar
Dojo: Victoria Jujitsu Academy
Location: Victoria BC
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 67
Canada
Offline
<laugh> good point evan....

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2003, 07:13 PM   #6
Thalib
 
Thalib's Avatar
Dojo: 合気研究会
Location: Jakarta Selatan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 504
Indonesia
Offline
Could it be that Osensei means that we are all Aikido? Could he mean that we all must have that attitude? Not being arrogant, but it's probably something like, "I think therefore I am."

Aikido could not exist by itself, it needs sometype of entity to channel it, in this case humans.

I believe many people probably perceive that as arrogance. I believe it's actually a saying for people to grow beyond forms and techniques.

Forms and techniques could be written and drawn in a book but Aikido could not.

When I have to die by the sword, I will do so with honor.
--------
http://funkybuddha.multiply.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2003, 07:25 AM   #7
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Quote:
Ari Bolden wrote:
...It can be of no doubt that O sensei was a mysterious man trying to incorporate religious and spiritual beliefs (Omoto kyo religion) into his martial system....O Sensei was also a man of contradictions. He said "WITHOUT ME, THERE IS NO AIKIDO."...Cheers

Ari
I don't agree that he wanted his spiritual beliefs in his martial arts system. It was simply an outgrowth of his spiritual nature that became expressed in aikido. The first case is a conscious effort of expression. The second case is an unconscious expression. There are incidents where he stated you didn't need his religion (Shinto) to do aikido.

Without me, there is no aikido. Is an understanding that the spirit of aikido needs to be actualized through a person. You can't talk or write about aikido in the abstract. You have to do it. I believe this is what Iriawan was writing about.

BTW, to say "I am the universe." can be interpeted as an indication of spiritual identification. The speaker identifies, or relates to everything. This is the same basic idea of religion. The word religion comes from a Latin root word, religio, meaning "to be connected to."

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2003, 05:43 PM   #8
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
To me "with out me there is no Aikido" is kind of a Zen Koan.

Without "ME" the world does not exsist. At least to me it does not exsist. Again, as Iriawan states "I think therefore I am".

As far as coupling aikido with shinto/omoto kyo...who am I to say what his motives were.

I have to imagine though that if O'Sensei truely mastered himself, the world, and aikido as many claim he did, then you become ONE with everything, trival concepts of religion, dogma, etc really become meaningless.

I think O'Sensei used the totality of his experiences to try and pass along to others the lessons he learned to reach his state of being.

Westerners always seem to need to "label" and categorize everything such as "religion", "martial art", "business", "sport". does it really matter???

  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 08:31 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 10:10 AM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 07:27 PM
?? Exaggeration in Aikido ?? Roy General 305 03-30-2006 12:34 PM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 11:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:53 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate