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10-24-2012, 01:21 PM
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#26
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Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 165
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote:
I am not looking for add-ons to my technique. I have twenty shitty tricks to make my uke move or hurt more, and I am looking to rid my aikido of those tricks in favor of clean, effective technique. I see what you're saying, move the body differently, ingrain different internal responses to stimulus, and the techniques will naturally change, and you believe they will be more effective and flow more naturally from the stimulus. I am way alright with that. I'd like to learn more about that.
But at the end of the day, yes I am looking to learn that to improve my aikido, in the sense that I am making something that is me and mine, and I will use it in my life, and my expression of my physicality, my way through life with energy that works well. Not as an add-on, but as a change in foundation. And to impress the hot chicks in my aikido class. And beer.
Yes, It Has To Be Felt. When several of my friends are telling me something is the goods, and I read other folks saying they're having good results, I am curious, and want a look. I'm still going to be a skeptic, the metaphors better just be metaphors and be useful metaphors, and I had better feel a quantitative as well as qualitative difference. But I will give it a look. Thanks for avoiding any hucksterism or condescension.
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That is what I got from the experience. What I am doing have to change fundamentally. It was almost a feeling of f*** I have to start all over again. I know all this waza, but I don't have what should be at the core of it all.
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10-24-2012, 01:28 PM
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#27
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Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote:
That is what I got from the experience. What I am doing have to change fundamentally. It was almost a feeling of f*** I have to start all over again. I know all this waza, but I don't have what should be at the core of it all.
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Richard:
I have been immediately incorporating everything I learn when I am with Dan back into the Aikido. The fit and quickness of the changes are particularly striking. Of course, it helps that I end up going "OH SH*T, my teacher has been putting this in front of me and I have been too blind, stubborn and stupid to get it....."
good luck!
marc abrams
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10-24-2012, 01:50 PM
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#28
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Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote:
That is what I got from the experience. What I am doing have to change fundamentally. It was almost a feeling of f*** I have to start all over again. I know all this waza, but I don't have what should be at the core of it all.
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well you can take a few approaches.
1. denounce that the IP/IS folks brainwashed you, and they are evil-spawn, and you can go back to do what you do as before. This is the easiest thing to do. i'd do it in a heart beat. they are evil, always talking about partying and drinking and so on!
2. tell folks that you already doing it, so you don't have to change anything you have done so far. this also is pretty easy to do, as long as, you stay out of seminars or encounter with those IP/IS folks.
3. tell folks that it's not the aiki of aikido of the old guy so you shouldn't look at it, at all. then go back to do what you do before. also, very easy to do.
4. work your ass off to rewire your body and cursing these IP/IS folks every second of your practice for screwing with your head, then in between breaks, curse them some more. those damn bastards shown you stuffs that messed up your previous experiences. later on, you screw with other noob and have them curse at you for fun.
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10-24-2012, 02:05 PM
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#29
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Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 386
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Re: I Was Wrong
Hi Marc, not to be nosy, but is that Imaizumi Sensei? It figures. He probably has insight into all those "stuffs" as Phi calls them. Don't put yourself down, you did learn something for you to be able to appreciate these "stuffs"
Phi has taken over my brain, we will just have to try to get to a seminar and find out what all this is about.
Richard, thanks for the testimonial. It's first hand accounts that make old doggies like me curious to maybe find out about new tricks that we might learn if we can manage to get there
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10-24-2012, 02:08 PM
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#30
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Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 386
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Oops I better re read the other posts. Krystal says it's not "shifty tricks" so I should have used other words. Anyway, interesting thread. Thanks for the personal accounts!
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10-24-2012, 02:09 PM
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#31
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Dojo: www.pbjjc.com
Location: Long Island, NY
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote:
So, it was aikido, but better? You mention his connection with the ground, and ability to easily perform techniques against profoundly resistant partners. Can you go into more detail?
Most importantly, was he able to convey to you how he did those things? Did he teach you what to do, and have you been able to apply what you were taught effectively?
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Hi,
I'm good, but you do realize this was just one weekend. They do have to do some practice with these things
I'm in Oregon in June. Contact Dan Penrod at sensei@budodojo.com.
Best wishes,
Howard
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10-24-2012, 02:26 PM
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#32
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Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 386
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Wow. Long Island. And Marc's at Bedford Hills, Westchester. Places only around an hour or so away. And a former student of mine lives in Nassau County. She studied briefly with Imaizumi Sensei while working at an office in Manhattan. Maybe finally I will get to see what these "stuffs" are. Oh by the way, I was reading with my "outdoor" glasses. I guess Krystal was not saying "shifty" about being dissatisfied with some former techniques....
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10-24-2012, 02:33 PM
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#33
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Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote:
have you been able to apply what you were taught effectively?
but are not saying that they have taken useful stuff out of the seminars and applying the techniques in their own practice.
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Took me about 2 years off and on trying to do some of the conditioning drills right. Incremental improvements along the way. Keeps getting better and better. Regular hands on time with someone who knows what's up will only help.
People are starting to notice a difference in my 'feeling'.
Been to 3x Dan seminars ... trying to suck less.
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10-24-2012, 02:35 PM
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#34
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Dojo: www.pbjjc.com
Location: Long Island, NY
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Diana,
516-489-1278
Would even come to your dojo
Howard
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10-24-2012, 03:25 PM
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#35
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Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 386
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Oh wow, thanks, that would be so great.... if we all knew Time Travel! Dojo was 29 years ago, and then after that, a few months in an art loft in 88-89. But I will try to get to Nassau County to my friend's house and from there to your dojo. I will keep your number and hope we can go there within the next few months. I know she and I will enjoy it and learn a lot.
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10-24-2012, 07:39 PM
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#36
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 716
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Re: I Was Wrong
None of you guys are coming to Tasmania, are you?
Didn't think so....
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10-24-2012, 09:32 PM
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#37
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Dojo: www.pbjjc.com
Location: Long Island, NY
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
I have family in Australia, lets talk :-)
Popkinbrogna@yahoo.com
Best wishes,
Howard
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10-24-2012, 11:03 PM
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#38
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Location: Montreal
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
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Re: I Was Wrong
This conversation has piqued my curiosity but what does IP/IS stand for?
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10-25-2012, 02:52 AM
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#39
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Dojo: Seikokan
Location: Zwolle
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 169
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
John Ianus wrote:
This conversation has piqued my curiosity but what does IP/IS stand for?
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Internal Power / Internal Strenght
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10-25-2012, 06:15 AM
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#40
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Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote:
None of you guys are coming to Tasmania, are you?
Didn't think so....
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don't think so. too many devils there.
*sorry, couldn't help myself. i will now aiki myself a couple of time to atone for my sins*
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10-25-2012, 06:28 AM
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#41
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Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Diana Frese wrote:
Phi has taken over my brain, we will just have to try to get to a seminar and find out what all this is about.
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hey! i don't do the brain stuffs. i only had the pig brain with some picante sause one time, and it was disgusting. i had to go for 2 and 3 helpings (there weren't much left after that) in order to make sure it was disgusting! ya, moi no do brain stuffs! body snatching on the other hand (the other other one) i am pretty good at. just look at Howie, he, in actuality, is Mini-Phi.
*thank god i am way in the boon dock and nowhere near howie*
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10-25-2012, 06:33 AM
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#42
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 716
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Phi Truong wrote:
don't think so. too many devils there.
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Think of all the natural aiki we have to develop in order to fight them off though
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10-25-2012, 06:36 AM
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#43
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Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 165
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Tasmania + Targa = Yes!
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10-25-2012, 09:20 AM
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#44
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Location: Phoenix, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 407
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Diana Frese wrote:
Wow. Long Island. And Marc's at Bedford Hills, Westchester. Places only around an hour or so away. And a former student of mine lives in Nassau County. She studied briefly with Imaizumi Sensei while working at an office in Manhattan. Maybe finally I will get to see what these "stuffs" are. Oh by the way, I was reading with my "outdoor" glasses. I guess Krystal was not saying "shifty" about being dissatisfied with some former techniques....
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What I was saying is that I know a fair number of "tricks" designed to add discomfort to techniques in order to make my ukes move or hurt more. Clipping thumbs, finding pressure points, crossing their fingers, etc. I want to move away from those tricks into a better, safer foundation for my technique. I want my aikido to work because I make a shape with my body that my uke cannot help but fall into and be controlled. I want folks to move around me because they feel like it is the way they want to go, not because they feel pain or fear.
I've learned how to fight and hurt, now I want to go beyond that back to not fighting and not hurting.
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10-25-2012, 10:30 AM
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#45
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Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
John Ianus wrote:
This conversation has piqued my curiosity but what does IP/IS stand for?
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"How to be better than Osensei in 10,000 easy steps" or "utter waste of time propagated by deluded kool-aide gulping wannabes". Not that there is anything wrong with gulping kool-aide.
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10-25-2012, 02:38 PM
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#46
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Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 927
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote:
What I was saying is that I know a fair number of "tricks" designed to add discomfort to techniques in order to make my ukes move or hurt more. Clipping thumbs, finding pressure points, crossing their fingers, etc. I want to move away from those tricks into a better, safer foundation for my technique. I want my aikido to work because I make a shape with my body that my uke cannot help but fall into and be controlled. I want folks to move around me because they feel like it is the way they want to go, not because they feel pain or fear.
I've learned how to fight and hurt, now I want to go beyond that back to not fighting and not hurting.
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These aren't tricks. I use almost none of the pain compliance tricks. I know a bunch, I don't like them, they work best in the dojo. As Big Tony Alvarez once said (of a finger lock technique), "I'd lose that finger to kill you..."
This stuff will (or can) help with the goal that you state of moving away from the dojo-tricks.
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10-25-2012, 03:06 PM
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#47
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Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Christian Moses wrote:
These aren't tricks. I use almost none of the pain compliance tricks. I know a bunch, I don't like them, they work best in the dojo. As Big Tony Alvarez once said (of a finger lock technique), "I'd lose that finger to kill you..."
This stuff will (or can) help with the goal that you state of moving away from the dojo-tricks.
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I get nervous just reading that... Who in their right mind is trying *anything* on Tony...
I've been hit very hard in training, broken stuff, cracked open my lip pretty bad once. Kept right on doing what I was doing until the other guy was down. It hurt later. At the time of the pain it just pissed me off... Depends on the personality (or psychological pathology) of the person on the receiving end... As someone told me once, pain compliance is the wrong way to view it. Hurting some people will only make them mad. Structurally injuring, however... And a finger ain't what I'm talkin' about...
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10-25-2012, 04:19 PM
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#48
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Keith Larman wrote:
I get nervous just reading that... Who in their right mind is trying *anything* on Tony...
I've been hit very hard in training, broken stuff, cracked open my lip pretty bad once. Kept right on doing what I was doing until the other guy was down. It hurt later. At the time of the pain it just pissed me off... Depends on the personality (or psychological pathology) of the person on the receiving end... As someone told me once, pain compliance is the wrong way to view it. Hurting some people will only make them mad. Structurally injuring, however... And a finger ain't what I'm talkin' about...
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Yup. NO INCH punches!!
And non-telegraphing kicks and throws
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10-26-2012, 07:27 AM
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#49
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Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Yup. NO INCH punches!!
And non-telegraphing kicks and throws
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Yeah. I was in a randori fairly recently and a really strong, aggressive guy got fairly attached to me. I managed to "pulse" him off through his contact without him realizing it was coming. Confused the hell out of him. He later asked me what I did and to be honest I really couldn't explain it. It just kind of manifested itself real-time. Oddly enough it really wasn't until later when the guy asked that I even realized I had done it.
Training matters... Kind of a "duh" comment, eh...
In my experience most people who've never been in a fight are flustered by the first contact. Easy to use atemi, even crappy atemi, on those people. Some, however, know that getting hit just comes with the territory and don't worry much about crappy contact. Yeah, it leaves a mark but you'll survive and sometimes you'll take that to get in closer to do more damage, hence comments like Tony's. I told a friend who I was discussing this with to go on youtube and find some videos of Bas Rutten doing pancrase. Kind of like intentionally walking in to a wood chipper... Painful. And when he delivers a liver shot just with a palm strike, for instance, they go down. Good form, tons of power, incredible speed. And that's something that you just cannot ignore. Shut down time.
Yes, I love my heavy bag... Use it daily.
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10-26-2012, 09:43 AM
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#50
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Dojo: Tempe Arizona I Liq Chuan
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 145
Offline
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Re: I Was Wrong
Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
That's because it can't be done.
Not that there won't be things that you can immediately add on, but basically speaking, this stuff is not an add-on. It's not some extra tricks and twists that you can add on to your regular training and go along on your way.
What we're talking about is a fundamental change in the way that you use and condition your body - that change affects everything else and, eventually, is expressed in the technique (it does take some time).
So...rather than doing an "Aiki technique", you do Aiki and the technique expresses that quality of your body (and mind). If that makes sense...
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good way to say it. as Sifu says "stick to the principle, and the movement (application) will form around the principle".
for instance, when you stick to the principles of "IP/IS", and then recognize that all movement is merely inside out, or outside in, you can flow easily into many different kinds of 'techniques'.
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tiger at the gate
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discipline, concentration & wisdom
Twitter-@luoyegongfu
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