Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Non-Aikido Martial Traditions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-23-2012, 09:39 AM   #1
Richard Stevens
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 165
United_States
Offline
I Was Wrong

In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:55 AM   #2
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote: View Post
In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.
Train more, post less. It will be alright. Winding, winding, spiral - puuuulllllling and back bow (trust me - this is way funny in person).

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:20 AM   #3
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote: View Post
In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.
come on! he couldn't have known about those stuffs. he spent most of his time fishing, and not even good at it! everyone knows that fishing involved the use of explosive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSEuD...eature=related therefore, his knowledge of IP/IS is suspect

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:28 AM   #4
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Don't worry, the same thing happened to me.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:32 AM   #5
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Me too. I thought it was all B.S.
Then I learned
Then...I thought the model was a secret to one art!!
Then two.
Oops!!
Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:15 AM   #6
Carsten Möllering
 
Carsten Möllering's Avatar
Dojo: Hildesheimer Aikido Verein
Location: Hildesheim
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 932
Germany
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

That's why I love live:
There are gates to be opened.
In a lot of senses.
Everyday.
Change.

Sorry for my english. In German this could be a poem ... :-)))

Last edited by Carsten Möllering : 10-23-2012 at 11:17 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:12 PM   #7
morph4me
 
morph4me's Avatar
Location: NY
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 54
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Welcome to the club

"Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men" - Thomas Henry Huxley
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 02:14 PM   #8
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Yup, the real pickle is so what are you going to do now?

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #9
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Yup, the real pickle is so what are you going to do now?
Beer, and a lot of it. Might not help, but it can't hurt, right?

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 02:31 PM   #10
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Beer, and a lot of it. Might not help, but it can't hurt, right?

Best,

Chris
I try not get stuck in a rut, so I switch between beer, sake, red wine and some nice mixed drinks......

Regards,

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 03:26 PM   #11
Ernesto Lemke
Dojo: Seikokan , Leeuwarden
Location: Leeuwarden. the Netherlands
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 150
Netherlands
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

That's all fine and dandy but meanwhile I'll be stuck sipping Chardonnay with mr. DH the next couple of days....that's what this IP/Aiki fest seems to call for. And I like my beer...
Cheers

Ernesto
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 05:34 PM   #12
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

I have never been wrong in my life - just not as enlightened as I should have been on many occasions is more like it

Greg
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 05:36 PM   #13
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
I try not get stuck in a rut, so I switch between beer, sake, red wine and some nice mixed drinks......

Regards,

Marc Abrams
All within the same hour too - you lush
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 05:44 PM   #14
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
All within the same hour too - you lush
Hey! I resemble that re-marc

Regards,

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 05:49 PM   #15
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Hey! I resemble that re-marc

Regards,

Marc Abrams
Oh, you are just so cute when you get witty
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 08:34 PM   #16
JW
 
JW's Avatar
Location: San Diego CA USA
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 561
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote: View Post
After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong.
Hi Richard- I love me a story. Any chance you can describe a little more the change of heart that you experienced? Was it sudden, like he told you to grab his wrist, and then he shocked and amazed you? Or was it more of a cumulative revalation? Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 05:05 AM   #17
Howard Popkin
Dojo: www.pbjjc.com
Location: Long Island, NY
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Thanks for the kind words

Great group !!! Lots of hard work .

Hope to see you guys soon,

Best wishes,

Howard

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 08:29 AM   #18
Sacha Cloetens
Dojo: Ban Sen Juku Leuven - Masakatsu Dojo
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15
Belgium
Offline
Smile Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote: View Post
In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.
Nah.... before "the others" were wrong.... & now.... "they" are still wrong.... :-)
enjoy
SC
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 08:40 AM   #19
Richard Stevens
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 165
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Hi Richard- I love me a story. Any chance you can describe a little more the change of heart that you experienced? Was it sudden, like he told you to grab his wrist, and then he shocked and amazed you? Or was it more of a cumulative revalation? Thanks!
I was a bit dumbfounded from the get-go. He started off by having us show one of our basic waza and then he showed us what it was like with "aiki". We can get it to work even with a great deal of resistance, but he did it against full resistance seemingly effortlessly. Everything else was just as impressive. His abilitiy to "connect to the ground" was unbelievable. The experience made me reconsider a lot of my views.

I have to say though, the fact that he is down the earth and seems genuinely interested in helping others improve made it such a good experience.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 09:09 AM   #20
SteveTrinkle
Dojo: Aikido Kenkyukai International
Location: Ambler, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 232
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

once Ithought Iwas wrong,but Iwas mistaken

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:48 AM   #21
Krystal Locke
Location: Phoenix, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 407
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

So, it was aikido, but better? You mention his connection with the ground, and ability to easily perform techniques against profoundly resistant partners. Can you go into more detail?

Most importantly, was he able to convey to you how he did those things? Did he teach you what to do, and have you been able to apply what you were taught effectively?

I am interested. If I had the free time from work, I'd check out a seminar for sure. Folks I know and respect are saying good things about the folks teaching these seminars, but are not saying that they have taken useful stuff out of the seminars and applying the techniques in their own practice. So I am not fully sold on the idea yet. Can you provide anything that would tip the balance?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:06 AM   #22
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Folks I know and respect are saying good things about the folks teaching these seminars, but are not saying that they have taken useful stuff out of the seminars and applying the techniques in their own practice.
That's because it can't be done.

Not that there won't be things that you can immediately add on, but basically speaking, this stuff is not an add-on. It's not some extra tricks and twists that you can add on to your regular training and go along on your way.

What we're talking about is a fundamental change in the way that you use and condition your body - that change affects everything else and, eventually, is expressed in the technique (it does take some time).

So...rather than doing an "Aiki technique", you do Aiki and the technique expresses that quality of your body (and mind). If that makes sense...

Best thing is to go try it out! Alan Beebe can't be too far from you, and Dan gets down there.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:13 AM   #23
Pat Togher
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 88
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Howard Popkin Sensei and Joe Brogna Senseis are also frequently in the Seattle.
I know it's a fair distance from you, but they are truely excellent teachers.

Pat
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:31 AM   #24
Richard Stevens
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 165
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
So, it was aikido, but better? You mention his connection with the ground, and ability to easily perform techniques against profoundly resistant partners. Can you go into more detail?

Most importantly, was he able to convey to you how he did those things? Did he teach you what to do, and have you been able to apply what you were taught effectively?

I am interested. If I had the free time from work, I'd check out a seminar for sure. Folks I know and respect are saying good things about the folks teaching these seminars, but are not saying that they have taken useful stuff out of the seminars and applying the techniques in their own practice. So I am not fully sold on the idea yet. Can you provide anything that would tip the balance?
Good questions. I don't want to speak out of place, but he did provide us with specific exercises to develop these "abilities". We are in the process of joining the Ginjukai as a study group (consisting of both Aikikai and Dentokan members) to try and further develop these skills under Mr. Popkin's guidance.

While I most certainly won't claim to have developed any "aiki" skills after a mere two days or introduction/practice I find myself at a place where:

1. I know it isn't BS
2. It can be clearly applied to my Jujutsu waza (or more accurately my waza applied to it)
3. My waza will always be severely lacking without it

As I mentioned before I was completely skeptical of the whole IP/IS argument. I expected Mr. Popkin to simply have polished, excellent Jujutsu. It was much more than that. I think the entire weekend he only showed us one kata from Daitoryu. As much as I hate to say this, it has to be felt.

Interestingly I felt more correlation between what Mr. Popkin does and my Iai than I do with my current Jujutsu practice.

Last edited by Richard Stevens : 10-24-2012 at 11:32 AM. Reason: poor grammar
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #25
Krystal Locke
Location: Phoenix, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 407
United_States
Offline
Re: I Was Wrong

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
That's because it can't be done.

Not that there won't be things that you can immediately add on, but basically speaking, this stuff is not an add-on. It's not some extra tricks and twists that you can add on to your regular training and go along on your way.

What we're talking about is a fundamental change in the way that you use and condition your body - that change affects everything else and, eventually, is expressed in the technique (it does take some time).

So...rather than doing an "Aiki technique", you do Aiki and the technique expresses that quality of your body (and mind). If that makes sense...

Best thing is to go try it out! Alan Beebe can't be too far from you, and Dan gets down there.

Best,

Chris
I am not looking for add-ons to my technique. I have twenty shitty tricks to make my uke move or hurt more, and I am looking to rid my aikido of those tricks in favor of clean, effective technique. I see what you're saying, move the body differently, ingrain different internal responses to stimulus, and the techniques will naturally change, and you believe they will be more effective and flow more naturally from the stimulus. I am way alright with that. I'd like to learn more about that.

But at the end of the day, yes I am looking to learn that to improve my aikido, in the sense that I am making something that is me and mine, and I will use it in my life, and my expression of my physicality, my way through life with energy that works well. Not as an add-on, but as a change in foundation. And to impress the hot chicks in my aikido class. And beer.

Yes, It Has To Be Felt. When several of my friends are telling me something is the goods, and I read other folks saying they're having good results, I am curious, and want a look. I'm still going to be a skeptic, the metaphors better just be metaphors and be useful metaphors, and I had better feel a quantitative as well as qualitative difference. But I will give it a look. Thanks for avoiding any hucksterism or condescension.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it wrong if my purpose in aikido is to be strong? edgarhaliman General 13 10-30-2009 03:12 PM
Dogi worn wrong? roadster General 18 11-22-2007 09:18 AM
is aikido in the work place wrong? emma.mason15 Humor 35 08-02-2006 11:45 AM
Is it wrong? actoman Training 10 09-05-2003 09:49 AM
practice, doing it wrong to get it right. Bruce Baker General 4 12-30-2002 03:13 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:13 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate