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10-05-2008, 01:21 AM
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#1
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Dojo: Yuugou Aikido Kaisho
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 132
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How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
A couple of months ago I came across a thread discussing the hip throw some guy from the movie "Incredible Hulk" was teaching Dr. Bruce Banner. They referred to it as an "Aikido" throw. I noticed that the guy they were talking about was Rickson Gracie of the BJJ first family (Gracie JJ) fame so I assume he was representing BJJ there.
My question is "How do you actually know if it is Aikido?
One-Aiki,
Iking
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10-05-2008, 03:45 AM
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#2
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Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
I would say it's not about the technique, but about the way it's performed. Haven't seen the movie, so...
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10-05-2008, 05:07 AM
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#3
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Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Onegaishimasu. One can't do a certain technique and claim it is an aikido technique. Likewise, you can't claim that anything can be aikido. It is a wonderful paradox that all aikido students face sooner or later. It is very much like the paradox of life being impossible, but something we do every day.
In gassho,
Mark
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- Right combination works wonders -
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10-05-2008, 10:04 AM
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#4
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Dojo: Bucks County Aikido
Location: Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 425
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Also keep in mind that many of the arts have borrowed from each other. Aikido does have some koshinage's that are from judo. I believe that many of the grappling/throwing arts have many techniques and throws that are alike. As the poster said above, it's really all in the way the technique is done.
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10-05-2008, 10:34 AM
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#5
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Dojo: Aikido of Center City, Philadelphia, PA.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 46
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
I believe it is all about intention.
Forms of irimi-nage and kotegaeshi exist in karate schools as well as some of Aikido's throws and take downs can find their origins in some jujitsu styles.
What is ones intention and what's in their heart when the technique is being applied? This, to me anyway, is what makes the difference. Anything can be "Aikido" as long as the arts principles are being used and practiced.
It starts with the heart; everything else is just a label.
My two cents......
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10-05-2008, 05:56 PM
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#6
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Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 865
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
You'd have to feel it.
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10-06-2008, 12:54 AM
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#7
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Dojo: Saskatoon Aikikai
Location: Saskatoon
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 31
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Aikido is more of a concept, rather than a noun or adjective...
But if you're speaking of certain movements or martial arts, I guess you could say anything that is flowing, requires none of your own energy, and doesn't harm your opponent is Aikido-like.
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10-06-2008, 01:36 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 692
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Does anyone know of a technique which exists only in Aikido?
To the best of my knowledge, I have seen variation of most techniques in more then one other style, and I got to see those without exploring for them ...
Amir
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10-06-2008, 02:18 AM
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#9
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 841
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Amir Krause wrote:
Does anyone know of a technique which exists only in Aikido?
To the best of my knowledge, I have seen variation of most techniques in more then one other style, and I got to see those without exploring for them ...
Amir
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I doubt that there is technique that is unique to Aikido. There is a set of techniques (with some fuzziness on the boundaries) that
are Aikido techniques. I guess that this set is pretty much determined by the grading requirements.
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10-06-2008, 08:38 AM
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#10
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Dojo: Oregon Ki Society
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 269
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
"I doubt that there is technique that is unique to Aikido."
What about yonkyo? The yonkyo finish might be Aikido specific. I'm not really sure but just trowing it out there.
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Plus Ki
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10-06-2008, 08:51 AM
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#11
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 841
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Larry Cuvin wrote:
"...What about yonkyo?...
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What about it?
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10-06-2008, 09:20 AM
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#12
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Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Larry Cuvin wrote:
What about yonkyo? The yonkyo finish might be Aikido specific. I'm not really sure but just trowing it out there.
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It comes from Daito Ryu, so no. But I recall having read Rinjiro Shirata stating that Irimi Nage was a creation of O'Sensei. Maybe that one?
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10-06-2008, 09:36 AM
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#13
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote:
.. Irimi Nage was a creation of O'Sensei. Maybe that one?
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Maybe.
"This last technique is special, in that it allows one to quickly throw ones opponent without effort; here O, standing close to N, strongly places his left foot behind the left leg of N, and quickly grabs his throat over his arms, throwing him grandly on the back."
Clear Instructions to the Excellent Art of Wrestling. Nicolaes Petter. Amsterdam 1674.
(There are also yonkyo and shihonage in that book).
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10-06-2008, 09:42 AM
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#14
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Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 606
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
What a great drawing. Thank you.
DH
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10-06-2008, 10:00 AM
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#15
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 841
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
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10-06-2008, 11:59 AM
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#16
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Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Great try, Demetrio, but that looks more like Daito Ryu's Kubi Wa, from the Sankajo. No doubt one of the precursors of Irimi Nage.
Anyway, more than the throw itself, maybe he was referring to the irimi entry? I don't really know, just a guess.
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10-06-2008, 09:53 PM
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#17
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Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Ilia Rudnitskiy wrote:
Aikido is more of a concept, rather than a noun or adjective...
But if you're speaking of certain movements or martial arts, I guess you could say anything that is flowing, requires none of your own energy, and doesn't harm your opponent is Aikido-like.
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I have to say the concept of harming can be tricky, very subjective to the situation or the opponent that is involved. Aiki has a broad array of meanings to many people.
I would say more or less, subduing the opponent is more the way I would describe it. Using flow and the opponents energy to redirect and allow for some sort of lock/choke to stop the aggression. Some Aiki techniques will cause some degree of pain.
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10-07-2008, 01:07 AM
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#18
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Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote:
Some Aiki techniques will cause some degree of pain.
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Geez! Right! Any nage waza can be very destructive if uke doesn't know ukemi (in da streetz)... What's there about "love" and "the art of peace" in that?
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10-07-2008, 12:52 PM
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#19
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Dojo: midwest aikido center
Location: chicago
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 347
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
i think i remember kanai sensei saying something like '...if i do a judo technique in the spirit of aiki, then its aikido...'
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10-07-2008, 01:02 PM
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#20
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Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
I was always puzzled by Shirata Sensei's statement in that interview.
AAAAaaaalllllllleeeeeeeennnnnn! Are you there? Any ideas?
Best,
Ron (that was for Allen...)
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Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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10-08-2008, 05:51 AM
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#21
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 290
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote:
Great try, Demetrio, but that looks more like Daito Ryu's Kubi Wa, from the Sankajo. No doubt one of the precursors of Irimi Nage.
Anyway, more than the throw itself, maybe he was referring to the irimi entry? I don't really know, just a guess.
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Wow nice! I always had pictured Irimi nage/kokyu nage to have multiple openings to choke.
Here is a nice flick you may have seen before...maybe not huge in the Aikido arena but if you appreciate relaxed application of technique that uses gravity not to push, pull or jerk.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=c8_FevrLdaw
Poetry in motion.
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Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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10-08-2008, 06:55 AM
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#22
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Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote:
Wow nice! I always had pictured Irimi nage/kokyu nage to have multiple openings to choke.
Here is a nice flick you may have seen before...maybe not huge in the Aikido arena but if you appreciate relaxed application of technique that uses gravity not to push, pull or jerk.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=c8_FevrLdaw
Poetry in motion.
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Awesome video clip. Gravity used at it's best.
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10-08-2008, 07:33 AM
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#23
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 290
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?
Beautiful isn't it... I would relate it to kotegaishi.. but done underneath uke... no jerk, push or pull....
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Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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