Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-23-2005, 10:46 PM   #51
Sanshouaikikai
Dojo: Kin Tora Martial Arts and Fitness Center
Location: Buffalo, New York
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 102
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Good post again, Bro. Matt!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2005, 08:57 AM   #52
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,619
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Matt elaborated the teachings of Satan, the Fall and the triumph of Christ over sin.

The problem with Satan is the temptation to Manicheism, a belief that evil is self-creating, rather than simply the shadow of God's own creation. The problem with triumphalism is that it tends to the exclusion of those who have nothing yet to feel very triumphant about.

The problem with sin, in an evangelical mode, is that it does not translate very well into the cultural commonplaces of East Asia, and increasingly does not translate well into modern materialist idiom. Japan has been rapidly secularizing for this very reason. O-Sensei was an aberration in so many ways within the modern development of his own culture. He speaks to the world therefore as a dissenter even among his own.

Just as St. Paul found the image of the "unknown god" to preach to Athenians, so we must find the illusory images and fears that trouble the hearts of men in this age. We must show where the answer lies, and why, on their own terms.

Christ was preached in China in the seventh century, and very successfully in these very terms. He was taught as the answer to the chief spiritual problem upon which they focussed, which is karma, the end to the cycles of rebirth. Christ, the ultimate King of Dharma. There is cause to believe that this legacy informed the development of Jodo, Tendai, and Shingon Buddhism in both China and Japan.

If Christ is the answer to sin, in the cultural language of disobedience, debt and repayment, he is equally the answer in the language of karma, the balancing of good an evil acts, or to whatever metaphorical device we attach to the root spiritual problem of mankind. It is too vast, too incomprehensible, too fearful to our hearts to address directly without fashioning up such handles to grasp it as may be made from anything we happen to find lying around.

St. Paul understood this and spoke to the needs of the people as they saw them, not as he told them they ought to see them. We live in a materialist culture, a post-mythological age, in which all our myths have become material explanations of physicality. Spirituality is too often portrayed as a mere festering swamp, neglecting to mention the sterile horror that materialism presents in its place.

Materialism thereby becomes simply a different form of myth, albeit a minimalist myth. This was deeply understood by one of the preeminent modern mythmakers, himself. (THX-1138, anyone?) We must address ourselves with sympathy and understanding to those who suffer in this age, and in the terms in which they perceive their own suffering.

Aikido is a timely gift to mankind in this respect. It is so physical, so material, so tangible and yet at the same time ineffable and pointing beyond itself. It takes us beyond those perceived troubles to the center, the heart of aggression and wrath.

This anger flows from violent frustration. The frustration is born of impotence in the face of the seemingly irresistible, and purposeless physical causation that is the myth of our day. Materialism simultaneously and pointedly denies the very premises of free will. The truth of our age is thus correctly sensed and feared as a double trap. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There are observations within materialism itself that point beyond these traps however, (Goedel's incompleteness theorem, and the uncertainty principle, being good examples). But they are incapable of saying where, exactly, they point to.

It does no good to tell someone who is spiritually troubled by something, even if the cause is illusory, that he is not really spiritually troubled because we define his trouble as non-existent in our theology. This is especially so, when his own cultural metaphor defines our solution itself as illusory. This is the unfortunate approach of much of present day evangelization.

Illusions are powerful. Illusions kill people and destroy human spirits as much or more so than physical processes, and cannot be so lightly dimissed. This very fact is a denial of the root myth of materialism. It is a damning demonstration of its lack of spiritual utility.

Find the "unknown god" of this age. Preach His salvation. Bring His peace. Speak His truth. Dispel all illusion. Requeiscat in pacem Dei.

Kokyu tanden ho.

Cordially,
Erick Mead
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2005, 09:10 AM   #53
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Just started reading a book on the gnostic Gospels. These were Gospels which were known to exist, but were not included in the new testatament by the 'church' since they didn't fit in with church belief, even though some are thought to predate the gospels in the New Testament. e.g. Gospel of Thomas is written by Jesus's brother (yes he had a brother) and neglects to discuss the ressurection. I think also, the Gospel of Philip is supposed to be influenced by Eastern (particularly Indian) thought. Now, more complete versions of the gnostic gospels were discovered in the 20th Century, and have been translated, although thorough linguistic analysis is still on-going.

Many historians now believe that Christianity was orignally a cult of Jesus, with something similar to the book of Q as guidance (Book of Q is undiscovered, but it is supposed to be the orginal source for all the New Testament Gospels, and which the book of Thomas is supposed to be closest to). Included within this thought was a belief in enlightenment (finding heaven) through understanding - however it is believed by some that following Jesus' death there was a power struggle. Christianity diversified and a church established which reduced the power of women (inc. the importance of Mary Magdelene i.e. they referred to her in the New Testament as a prostitute) and enabled authority only to be held by a certain few. Thus Jesus was bodily resurrected and appeared to the disciples, conferring authority on them utlimately, on the leaders of the church. Even though Jesus appeared to Mary Magdelene first, (I think) this is not mentioned in one of the New Testament Gospels, and the order is reveresed in another (although I think in Matthew it is correct). Since Jesus appeared in bodily form to the disciples, no-one else can see this. The gnostic gospels generally state that Jesus' ressurection was a vision of his spirit and appeared in different forms to different people - but was NOT a body.

Many of the strange inconsistencies and paradoxes in Christianity can be explained simply once it is seen in light of the power struggle between the original follows of Jesus (cult of Jesus) and the rapidly establishing church. And through to this day, many people distrust the church and don't believe in the ressurection, yet believe in the sayings of Jesus. In my mind these are the true Christians, not those who have followed the 'church', and this belief alligns much more closely with some aspects of Eastern thought. (Some people believe Jesus was exposed to eastern philosophy during his twenties - the mysterious period missing from the new testament, but not from the gnostic gospels)

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2005, 09:21 AM   #54
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

P.S. thus I think arguments on what christianity is and is not to some extent are pointless. The New Testament is NOT a good guide to who Jesus was or what Christianity was originally intended to be, although Jesus' teachings (in all the gospels) agree extremely well.

If you look at teachings like i. how the poppies are clothed so no need for humans to worry, ii. not to store food away etc it is very reminiscent of the need to live in the present (though not in a hedonistic way) typical of Taosim. I cannot find any discrepancy between Jesus' TEACHINGS and Taosim. Orignal sin etc is a product of Judaism, and as such Jesus was preaching to a particular ethnic mix, to which he had to explain his philosophy.

Good books on history of Christianity:

The Lost Gospel
The gnostic gospels
Testament (history of the creation of old & new testament)

Finally - religious people often have an objective in the information (or miss-information) they transfer - if you want facts don't look in the modern bible, look to linguistics scholars and religious historians. All the above texts are written by professors of religious studies.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2005, 08:47 PM   #55
Sanshouaikikai
Dojo: Kin Tora Martial Arts and Fitness Center
Location: Buffalo, New York
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 102
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Hey, Ian...interesting posts...but...I've heard it all before and I've studied in depth many times over and over and it is the biggest thing that I, personally, am an expert at arguing against and quite easily at that, and that is against the so called, "Gnostic Gospels." First off, they do not pre-date the Gospels that are in the N.T. Anyone book or "historian" that says otherwise is an idiot. Simple as that. There is more evidence that proves that this Gnostic crap is simply that...crap. What's even more interesting is that we only have copies of the both O.T. and the N.T. What's interesting about the N.T. copies is that the earliest date they have is in and only in the first century A.D. Which is the time frame in which the stories in the N.T. take place...weird, huh? What's interesting about the Gnostic Gospels is that we have both the copies and the originals and both are dated as early as and only as early as the second century A.D. and later on! People who try to defend the Gnostic Gospels as truth or as legitimate Christian literature that was discriminated against by "mean" Christians make up lies about the dates and what not...it's actually quite sad. This...all that I'm writing here...is truth. What you wrote and what you are reading, Ian...is biased, Anti-Christian boloney made to make us Christians (and Jews) look stupid. However, all their so called "scholarly studies" are all EASILY...and VERY EASILY refuted BY ALL scholars of the Bible and Christian History. Even those that aren't Christian refute such garbage as the Gnostic Gospels and anything that goes against true history. So...the books that you referred people to, Ian...are crappy books that make no sense and are all biased and make no irrefutable arguments.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2005, 08:55 PM   #56
Sanshouaikikai
Dojo: Kin Tora Martial Arts and Fitness Center
Location: Buffalo, New York
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 102
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

One question I want to ask is this...Why do people want to redicule Christians and Jews and our beliefs but not do the same to Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc? Is it because those other people from those other religions would get offended and very angry and probably violent where as with Christians and Jews won't? So...because Christians and Jews are not violent people we could just try to insult them with unverifiable claims that are made to discredit their faith? Something to think about.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2005, 09:46 AM   #57
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Please read this interview on Elaine Pagels.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionande...6/profile.html

I don't get out of this what you are arguing at all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2005, 02:13 PM   #58
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Sorry got tied up earlier and didn't get to finish my post.

What I find interesting about the Gnostic Gospels is that they seem to support many of the ideals that arose out of the evangelical movements of Martin Luther and Calvin, which were that you didn't need a priest or a "high church" acting as a intermediary.

That and they were all about the "good news" which was that everyone can have a path to god and the "church" is not the "gatekeeper".

I think with many evangelicals where things seem to go awry is with the book of Thomas and John. John and Thomas seem to be at Odds over the whole "divinity" issue. John wrote that Jesus was the only way to get to heaven, through his divinity, Thomas, believed that Jesus was devine, but also that spark resided in everyone of us. Certainly a very crucial point for most Christian Churches.

I can see where this might be a percieved as threat because it would simply destroy many of the foundations.

However, you can argue all day long about the legitimacy and interpretation and in the end, what would be the point? Would we be any better off for provening one was right over the other? Probably not.

As far as Christans and Jews being collectively and categorical labeled as "non-violent" people, well that certainly is not true, no amount of revisionistic license can re-write of refute the shear amount of evidence and examples.

Not even Tibetan Buddhist, who by many are offered up as the most "modern" non-violent religious society can claim that title, as they had one of the strongest armies and some of the most fierest warriors to have ever roamed the planet in their past.

Also, where in the post on this thread is anyone ridiculing or being disrespectful of anybody, Christian, Jew or other?

Once again, I'd like to point out that you alone Alan are the one who uses such negatively emotionally driven words such as idiot, crap, stupid, and garbage to refer to people that offer opinions that are counter to your beliefs.

I'd say that most of the post I have read are not meant to discredit or invalidate your particular beliefs, but only to offer an alternative perspective, and constructive discussion and to say simply "here is something to think about.

I am also curious about your references concerning the Gnostic Gospels. I have found no where that said the "pre-date" the other gospels.

Also, I would add that while the gospels may have been written by Thomas and other disciples, they did not end up as a core part of Modern Christianity, and that much is fact. So I'd agree it is not a part of contemporary/modern Christian literature.


I certainly think it is possible for other disciples to disagree with their interpretation of Jesus' teachings and the events that took place and their significance.

Heck, it happens all the time in aikido.

I think the point is, that it is up to each of us to find what is best for ourselves, become happy and at peace with our choices and live our lives. Once we start forcing those beliefs on others or becoming insensitive, self important, justifiying negative actions with an external authoritiy such as God or Jesus, we have crossed the line.

It certainly is more than okay to share our joy and happiness in our chosen religion with others, that is a good thing! However we must be careful our attitude does not become "toxic" and "I'm right, your wrong".

I'd offer that our time would be bettter spent celebrating our commonalities and beliefs in compassion and peace. I think this is what makes Aikido such a wonderful thing. People from all religions can co-exisit on the same playing field and agree that harmony, peace, understanding, humanity, and hope our all wonderful ideas that are good for us, our inner being, and society.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2005, 06:18 PM   #59
DaRa
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

The question is whether a Christian can practice aikido. I believe the real question here is whether aikido will compromise a Christian. It certainly has the capability. Where the two meet is at "love thy enemy". Where they differ is in how. One instructs to "turn the other cheek" while the other seeks to preserve it. Violence does beget violence. Pick your path.

The beloved.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2005, 07:08 AM   #60
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

David, welcome.

I am not following your post. One instructs "turn the other cheek" "other seeks to perserve it". Can you explain what you mean a little more. I think you are making some assumptions that we are following your thought process, and it is not clear to me, at least.

Are you implying that Christianity instructs "turn the other cheek" and Aikido is about "defending your cheek"?

True violence does beget violence...ultimately. I believe that is why we study aikido, not to beget violence, but so we can better understand the true underlying causes of conflict and violence and develop ways to better respond to violence with options other than violence.

"Pick your path" are you implying that aikido and christianity are diametrically opposed and cannot be on the same path?

I might say that individually some christians may have a problem dogmatically with aikido, but in general, overall, the aikido community has not demonstrated to me anything that is not inline with christianity. I think it comes down to an individual spiritual/value assessment.

What are your thoughts on all this?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2005, 12:22 PM   #61
mazmonsters
Dojo: independant
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 24
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Alan, well said, my brother.
It is interesting to see that there are finally some major truths coming about in what Christianity is. I wonder how good it would go over to start a thread entitled "Aikido vs. Christianity," and show how they differ so very much, instead of the other way around, as it is portrayed so often. The facts of the matter should be noted:
The Bible cannot be contradictory within itself. The so-called gnostic gospels are not in the Bible for a reason, and that is because of their historical accuracy. The gospel of Thomas was found, as Alan stated, sometime late in the thrid century and dated back to the second century. This "gospel" goes against most of all the rest of the Gospels. Therefore, it was disregarded as being a hoax. And as for hoaxes, and people who claim to think the Resurrection was a hoax; Why would men die for something they knew wasn't true? And not only die, but be tortured to death? The disciples, Peter, James, John, etc...were not trying to start a new religion. They were afraid. Don't you think that the Romans or the Jews would have produced the body of Jesus if they could? Do you think, if the disciples hid the body, they would have gone out and preached about Jesus as the Resurrected Christ, knowing very well how many people wanted to stop those preachings of Jesus, and were commanded to stone anyone who spoke of Jesus? Do you think that if the Gospels (the real ones) were made up, the men in the stories would have been made out to be more heroic? They were hiding! Peter denied Jesus 3 times when the "rubber met the road." Jesus appeared to women when He was risen! That would have been changed to something along the lines of the disciples looking like faithful heroes at all times to protect their dignity, if it were not true. The Gospels hold information within their writings that prove they were written before the destruction of Jeruselem in 70 AD. Inside information that only a person who was living at that time would have known. Also, the gospels were found to be written after the Epistles, which were written by Paul after Jesus had already ascended...so how did Paul know what was going on, confirming the Faith, if he didn't have the "documents" to go off of? Jesus came to Paul Himself, and gave him the message...then Paul hooked up with Peter, wanted to learn more about Jesus' life here on earth, and went to the Greek and Romans and brought the Truth with him.
What is the stumbling block to mankind and to all the religions of men is the Crucifixion and Resurrection. Without those significant events, our faith holds no substance, and all paths can lead to God. This is why the resurrection needs to be recognized and historically debated...because it is true.
-Matt
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 04:54 PM   #62
tzebaoth
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 0
New Zealand
Offline
Response to post #37

"By "christianism" I take it that you mean Christianity cos there ain't no such word as "christianism".

Yes and thank you Jamie. I guess the 'ism' was intended to reinforce the idea that modern day Christianity is a system of doctrines formulated by human philosophers.

The Trinity being a perfect example :-)

Tzebaoth
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 09:58 AM   #63
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

kevin, aikido is about turning your cheek all the way around. When you do that, you will be standing in a safe place beside and behind the person who slapped you.
In gassho
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 03:11 PM   #64
Trish Greene
Dojo: Aikido-Kajukenbo Self Defense Center
Location: Boise
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 98
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

A little skewed post from the already skewed topic...

Matt, thank you for your words.

I do need to include an opinion here concerning some statements that have been bothering me as a Christian woman throughout this whole thread. This whole idea of the Bible demeaning women so that the male figures in the bible are put into a better light is based on peoples opinions who have not truly understood what the whole message of what christianity is.

Matt reminds us above that Jesus first appeared to women when He had risen. If what is being said is true, that women were being "downcast" or "demeaned" in the bible, then why would this be included? The resurrection is one of the most important parts of Christianity, if there was some "sinister plot" to demean women why wouldn't they have "twisted" the plot around so that a male figure would have been the first to see Jesus?

There are so many important female figures in the bible that I can't see how anyone would say that it was written to "keep women in their place".

We must be careful that our interpretations are not colored by our own agenda's, what we wanted to understand versus what the truth is. Yes, I also realise that this whole post could be seen by others as a "colored viewpoint".

Matthew 26:6-13
Mattew 28:1-9

Mary, Martha, Naomi, Ruth, Esther... just to name a few....
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 10:03 PM   #65
Leon Aman
 
Leon Aman's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 52
Philippines
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
Gerald Fontaniere wrote:
do you think a christian can practice aikido ?
thanks.

Gerald

Why not Gerald, I see no point of suppressing anyone to practice that art because I see no contradicting teaching on the part of aikido practices. Part of the christian teaching is about love, peace, humility and harmony so as in aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2005, 11:56 PM   #66
JAMJTX
Dojo: Aikibudo Seishinkan
Location: FORT WAYNE, IN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 106
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

I have a copy of a "Bible Study" of sorts for Christians who train in martial arts. It's essentially scriptures that talk about fighting/"preparing for war" and even the value of physical fitness. It's copyrighted so I can't post it on the internet. But if you would like to see it, I can send you a copy.

If you were to start to delve deeply into the spritual teachings of O-Sensei and go down the Bhudist road, then you are surely getting into areas that will be un-Christian. But speaking as a Born Again, Sacred Name, Messianic, Pentecostal, I can say with out a doubt that you can train in Aikido and be a Christian.

Jim Mc Coy
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 05:26 PM   #67
SMART2o
Location: Alberta
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22
Canada
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
Alan M. Rodriguez wrote:
One question I want to ask is this...Why do people want to redicule Christians and Jews and our beliefs but not do the same to Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc? Is it because those other people from those other religions would get offended and very angry and probably violent where as with Christians and Jews won't? So...because Christians and Jews are not violent people we could just try to insult them with unverifiable claims that are made to discredit their faith? Something to think about.

Think of it as New Testament prophecy coming true before your eyes. I see this as well and agree with you that it is pretty much open season on Christians these days.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 05:38 PM   #68
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 395
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
Alan M. Rodriguez wrote:
One question I want to ask is this...Why do people want to redicule Christians and Jews and our beliefs but not do the same to Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc? Is it because those other people from those other religions would get offended and very angry and probably violent where as with Christians and Jews won't? So...because Christians and Jews are not violent people we could just try to insult them with unverifiable claims that are made to discredit their faith? Something to think about.
I think it has to do with how widespread (popular maybe, can't think of the right word), the religion is. I think people pick on Christians and Jews because they are 2 major religions of the world. If Hinduism or Islam or Buddhism were as "big" as Christianity or Judaism then i would say that those religions would take just as much crap.

Of course the violence may be a factor as well, but you have to remember that there are extremists in all religions, and i personally don't think that those "critics" are scared of terrorists.

Just my thoughts,
*Paige*
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 05:38 PM   #69
SMART2o
Location: Alberta
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22
Canada
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
David Ravago wrote:
The question is whether a Christian can practice aikido. I believe the real question here is whether aikido will compromise a Christian. It certainly has the capability. Where the two meet is at "love thy enemy". Where they differ is in how. One instructs to "turn the other cheek" while the other seeks to preserve it. Violence does beget violence. Pick your path.

The beloved.

Let's explore the context in which Jesus said to turn the other cheek. The purpose of him saying this was not to make a bunch of pacifists who let evil people ravage them at will. Remember the sin of omission? If you see evil and do nothing, it is a sin. He was saying this so that when a Roman soldier(s) ordered you to give him your clothes or decided to strike you just for the fun of it, that you not only comply, but you offer him more than what was demanded. The reason for this was so that they would not meet a certain and cruel death for defying the Roman authority. So in essence, Jesus instructed his listeners to turn the other cheek precisely to preserve it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 06:03 PM   #70
Edwin Neal
Dojo: Ronin
Location: Henderson, North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

yeah but Jesus the kick ass martial artist tore up the temple that one time... remember? and isn't he often pictured walking with a jo?

Edwin Neal


  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 06:24 PM   #71
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
I think it has to do with how widespread (popular maybe, can't think of the right word), the religion is. I think people pick on Christians and Jews because they are 2 major religions of the world. If Hinduism or Islam or Buddhism were as "big" as Christianity or Judaism then i would say that those religions would take just as much crap.

Of course the violence may be a factor as well, but you have to remember that there are extremists in all religions, and i personally don't think that those "critics" are scared of terrorists.

Just my thoughts,
*Paige*
I'm not a religious person, so have no party axe to grind, but as far as I am aware Paige, the 2 largest ( in numbers of people ) religions in the world are Christianity and Islam, Judaism is small beer in comparison. ( someone correct me if I am wrong )
Christians and Jews seem to be alot more tolerant of critisism, and rarely get violent if their faith is called into question.
Buddhism is not strictly a religion, so hard to blaspheme against.
The current violent and fatal demonstrations happening around the world due to the cartoons depicting the prophet show that Islam has the 'thinnest skin'.

I agree that there are extremists in all religions, but some extremists are more dangerous than others.
Each religion has to take responsibility for their own 'nutters' (my term for religious extremist)
Extreme Buddhists are probably too busy in deep meditation to cause any trouble

I listened to a devout Muslim on TV a day or two ago, say that it was his desire (duty) to see every one in the UK in Islam, living under Sharia law. Now, freedom of speech allows him to say this, and I defend his right to do so, however, if he had his way, and we were all as he wanted us to be - Islamic, then we would no longer be able to speak freely. In my view this man is quite 'wrong' as he wants me to conform to his own narrow beliefs and he is not happy for me to worship the No God of my choice! ( apart from that I would have to grow a beard and it just doesn't suit me )
I am not poking fun at him or his beliefs. However, the road to Secularism has been a long and hard one, and not one that many millions of us are going to give up any time soon.
Everyone should be free to worship whatever they choose, but that does not give anyone immunity from critisism.
Often the biggest culprits are the religious themselves as they all seem to think that theirs is the 'right' one.

I've probably upset a few people, we'll soon see

regards,
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 06:28 PM   #72
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Jesus was a jew.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 06:33 PM   #73
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
Jesus was a jew.
Do Jew's believe in Jesus?

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2006, 07:17 PM   #74
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 395
United_States
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
I'm not a religious person, so have no party axe to grind, but as far as I am aware Paige, the 2 largest ( in numbers of people ) religions in the world are Christianity and Islam, Judaism is small beer in comparison. ( someone correct me if I am wrong )
Yes, worldwide Islam is larger in numbers than Judaism, but here in America, i think Muslims are a minority (i could be wrong) And typically we are hearing criticism from Americans and not people of other natonalities (obviously, we're in america) So, i guess i should have been speaking in terms of our own country and not worldwide, my bad.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Do Jew's believe in Jesus?
Jews, as a whole, believe that Jesus existed, they just don't believe that he was the Messiah. At least this is how it was explained to me by my best friend, who happens to be Jewish.

*Paige*
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2006, 06:06 AM   #75
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: aikido and christianism

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
Yes, worldwide Islam is larger in numbers than Judaism, but here in America, i think Muslims are a minority (i could be wrong) And typically we are hearing criticism from Americans and not people of other natonalities (obviously, we're in america) So, i guess i should have been speaking in terms of our own country and not worldwide, my bad.



Jews, as a whole, believe that Jesus existed, they just don't believe that he was the Messiah. At least this is how it was explained to me by my best friend, who happens to be Jewish.

*Paige*
Thanks Paige, I was aware of the Jewish belief about Jesus, it was a pretty lame/flippant response of mine to Mark's increadibly short post

regards,
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate