|
|
Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.
If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!
|
05-19-2010, 02:45 PM
|
#1
|
Dojo: Northampton Kai Shin Kai
Location: Northampton
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Offline
|
Omote, Ura...
Hi,
please excuse me if this is a totally ridiculous question.
Are the words Omote and Ura, the same as what I think of as Tenkan and Irimi?
Thanks in advance
|
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 03:12 PM
|
#2
|
Location: Tulsa, OK
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 166
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Not really. Some people use them that way but it's not quite correct. For example, you can do yokomenuchi shihonage with an irimi entry and then continue with either the omote or ura variation of shihonage.
My understanding is that omote and ura typically refer to "in front" or "in back" variations of a waza, while irimi and tenkan refer to your movement relative to your partner. Sometimes they coincide but not always.
Edit: it's also worth noting that some would say that tenkan is (or should be) always preceded with irimi.
Last edited by cguzik : 05-19-2010 at 03:16 PM.
|
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 03:22 PM
|
#3
|
Dojo: Aikido World Alliance
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 88
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
This web page explains it very well.
http://www.budodojo.com/MovementsOfAikido.htm
Omote, Ura, Irimi, and Tenkan are four quadrants.....
|
______________________________________________
"Hey! You got your kotegaeshi in my peanut butter!"
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 03:22 PM
|
#4
|
Dojo: Northampton Kai Shin Kai
Location: Northampton
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
makes sense, thanks.
|
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 04:00 PM
|
#6
|
Dojo: Northampton Kai Shin Kai
Location: Northampton
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 07:11 PM
|
#7
|
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido, Pitsburgh PA
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 948
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
ugh and just when you get all that straight they will throw in Uchi and Soto to confuse things even more....
|
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 07:13 PM
|
#8
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 909
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote:
ugh and just when you get all that straight they will throw in Uchi and Soto to confuse things even more....
|
Kiten-nage: those terms confused me for like 3 months straight...no joke.
|
MM
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 08:10 PM
|
#9
|
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 710
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Actually, I found that uchi and soto helped clear things up. I mean, when you first learning I suppose it just adds to the firehose of information being blasted down one's throat...but I didn't really pick up uchi and soto in regards to aikido until I had been training awhile. One thing I learned in Yoshinkan...at least my dojo...is there is a difference between tenkan and tenkai....AAA didn't make a difference on that account (at least not my AAA teachers).
Last instructor's meeting, one of the seniors looked up the kanji for tenkan and tenkai. One of the translations of tenkan, he found, was a conversion. One for tenkai translated to the idea of a rotation or revolution. This makes sense as, for us, tenkan is a shift...or conversion from one stance to the other without moving the balls of the feet....while tenkai is a pivot...using front foot as the pivot point with the rear leg following. I have the kanji, but can't figure out how to put them on here are they are on my hard drive and not from a link.
Last edited by Adam Huss : 05-19-2010 at 08:22 PM.
|
Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 08:22 PM
|
#10
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 909
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Quote:
Adam Huss wrote:
.is there is a difference between tenkan and tenkai....AAA didn't make a difference on that account (at least not my AAA teachers).
|
I don't know much about AAA...but Aikikai in general does distinguish between the two.
|
MM
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 08:26 PM
|
#11
|
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 710
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote:
Kiten-nage: those terms confused me for like 3 months straight...no joke.
|
M,
What do you mean by the term 'Kiten-nage'?
v/r
A
|
Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
|
|
|
05-19-2010, 08:40 PM
|
#12
|
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 710
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote:
I don't know much about AAA...but Aikikai in general does distinguish between the two.
|
Oops, I meant there is a difference between the two in my Yoshinkan school, but not my aikikai school (which was AAA until around 2000.)
AAA was a huge organization until its kancho, Toyoda Fumio, passed away and many people split off in the following years (including us) and it has gotten smaller.
Toyoda Sensei was a student at Aikikai honbu, but went with Tohei Sensei when he split from honbu b/c Tohei was his first teacher and their family's were neighbors for something like 200 years. Then Toyoda Sensei split from Tohei Sensei and started the AAA.
|
Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
|
|
|
05-20-2010, 04:10 AM
|
#13
|
Dojo: Northampton Kai Shin Kai
Location: Northampton
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Hehe, I like the fire hose analogy! I certainly keep finding myself reaching points, usually about an hour or an hour and a half into training, where my brain just feels full and wont accept any more information!
For now, the little revelation in my mind about Omote and Ura is enough to be pondering on I'm not even going to ask about Tankai...
|
|
|
|
05-20-2010, 11:26 AM
|
#14
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 909
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Quote:
Adam Huss wrote:
Oops, I meant there is a difference between the two in my Yoshinkan school, but not my aikikai school (which was AAA until around 2000.)
AAA was a huge organization until its kancho, Toyoda Fumio, passed away and many people split off in the following years (including us) and it has gotten smaller.
Toyoda Sensei was a student at Aikikai honbu, but went with Tohei Sensei when he split from honbu b/c Tohei was his first teacher and their family's were neighbors for something like 200 years. Then Toyoda Sensei split from Tohei Sensei and started the AAA.
|
Ah, see I told you! See how little I know about the AAA lol
|
MM
|
|
|
05-20-2010, 11:28 AM
|
#15
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 909
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Quote:
Adam Huss wrote:
M,
What do you mean by the term 'Kiten-nage'?
v/r
A
|
kaiten-nage typo, missed the "a".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4HHG-5eRMs
|
MM
|
|
|
05-20-2010, 08:03 PM
|
#16
|
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 710
Offline
|
Re: Omote, Ura...
Ah, kaiten nage. I thought that maybe you meant that but didn't want to assume in the event I would miss out on learning of a technique I hadn't heard of before. I have also notice the Aikikai and Yoshinkan kaiten nage are quite different (Yoshinkan is generally a crosstep throw for their most basic while my aikikai training was a pivot throw).
...I tried to related this to omote/ura, shomen/tenkan/tenkai, uchi sabaki/soto sabaki, but the post got to be waaay too long!
Last edited by Adam Huss : 05-20-2010 at 08:04 PM.
Reason: add
|
Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:29 PM.
|
vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
|
|