Is Aikiweb still relevant?

It's June 2024, a quick look at the forums show that only three have had new posts this year. The forum Voices of the Experienced has been idle for six years. While there is a great deal of information on this site, it seems that it's not inspiring active participation. I am interested in your thoughts?

Benny Goolsby wrote: It's June 2024, a quick look at the forums show that only three have had new posts this year. The forum Voices of the Experienced has been idle for six years. While there is a great deal of information on this site, it seems that it's not inspiring active participation. I am interested in your thoughts?

Forums die because the system is dying.

Aikido's grown stale by its refusal to evolve. And I don't necessarily mean introducing full-on sparring.

I've trained in a modernized Aikido dojo and it was a breath of fresh air just because of their integration of some Judo techniques into Aikido cirriculum and more spontaneous versions of jiyu-waza. No sparring - but drills which nonetheless teach how to flow spontaneously with random attacks.

But most dojos are traditional, students are discouraged from experimenting after class, stagnation is rampant, there's nothing new or interesting left.

People never bother to examine the purpose of Aikido techniques or the framework within which they work best, or the holes that can be filled by some other techniques, or modifications/enhancements - there's just no interest in anything.

Aikido's become a religious cult.

1.5 years ago I attempted to train at another traditional dojo, into which I walked in wearing a white belt. A large-build brown belt was teaching us how to "feel" nikkyo. As usual, the exercise was arranged so that his authority as the substitute teacher was never to be questioned.

A white belt attempted to do nikkyo on him, he of course blocked it with his massive frame, and white belt failed. The brown belt started lecturing him about "feeling energy of love".

Then it was my turn. I know that nikkyo can be done by extending the uke "as if about to do waki gatame / rokkyo", and then folding their arm back into nikkyo. Using not muscle, but my own body weight. I did just that, removing slack from his arm and then folding back. As the brown belt started going to his knees, he said "NO NO, you're not doing it right! You're using FORCE! You have to feeeeel the eeeenerggyyyy"...

... and that sums up my opinion as to why Aikido is dying, really. And Aikido forums are dying with it.

Aleksey Nikolaevich wrote: Forums die because the system is dying...Aikido is dying, really. And Aikido forums are dying with it.

I just sat in on a class at my dojo. I haven't been able to train in person because of Long Covid, but the JKD school I go to was closed so I went. There were two new people in the class.

I'm also addicted to a YouTube channel out of Japan. The sensei videos his demonstration, then walks the class recording everyone practicing. I don't speak Japanese, but you see all the personality types. It does feel like I'm in a class.

In both instances, I've seen when new people joined. "Dying" arts don't attract new people.

I would look at other reasons why Aikiweb's activity is down before making a broader pronouncement about Aikido.

I think there's also an element of 'everything has already been said'. When considering something about aikido, I might do some Internet searching and frequently there's a relevant old thread on Aikiweb. Which is great, btw.

Or, in the case of aiki, a lot has been typed, without anything said.

Kristoffer Lawson wrote: I think there's also an element of 'everything has already been said'. When considering something about aikido, I might do some Internet searching and frequently there's a relevant old thread on Aikiweb. Which is great, btw. Or, in the case of aiki, a lot has been typed, without anything said.

It would also be a good idea to look at the general relevance of internet forums like this one. Has forum usage generally declined as the social media landscape has changed? Or is it just here?

That being said, I should point out that we are discussing Aikiweb's relevance...on Aikiweb. So, we don't think it's irrelevant yet.

Michael Gallagher wrote: It would also be a good idea to look at the general relevance of internet forums like this one. Has forum usage generally declined as the social media landscape has changed? Or is it just here? That being said, I should point out that we are discussing Aikiweb's relevance...on Aikiweb. So, we don't think it's irrelevant yet.

I agree. I think forums in general have declined because of all of the other social media options. I go to FB 2-3 times per week while I only check in here occasionally and rarely post.

But there is much on Aikiweb that is of value other than the forum. The dojo search is great but dojos need to make sure their information is kept up to date.

I agree with much of what has already been posted on the topic, particularly the "It's been discussed already" post. I also think that the evolution of social media (FB, Insta, Tik Tok) has slowed down the amount of activity on AikiWeb. IMO, reviewing a web forum like this requires time and attention and can't really satisfy the "ADD" immediacy cravings which those newer platforms cater to. Then there is the whole shift to combat sports, like MMA, which has brought many people to believe that Aikido is worthless as a martial art.

For a few years, I've viewed AikiWeb as more of a research/reference source/archive rather than an active discussion forum. It was awesome in its heyday, though! Aikido Today Magazine and Aikido News/Journal were still published magazines when I first joined this site (late-90's) and it was a wonderful way to discuss the articles published in those mags with folks from all over the world! And I believe that the IS/IP debates opened up cans of worms which still need to be fleshed out further in this martial art.

Gene McGloin wrote: I agree with much of what has already been posted on the topic, particularly the "It's been discussed already" post. I also think that the evolution of social media (FB, Insta, Tik Tok) has slowed down the amount of activity on AikiWeb. IMO, reviewing a web forum like this requires time and attention and can't really satisfy the "ADD" immediacy cravings which those newer platforms cater to. Then there is the whole shift to combat sports, like MMA, which has brought many people to believe that Aikido is worthless as a martial art. For a few years, I've viewed AikiWeb as more of a research/reference source/archive rather than an active discussion forum. It was awesome in its heyday, though! Aikido Today Magazine and Aikido News/Journal were still published magazines when I first joined this site (late-90's) and it was a wonderful way to discuss the articles published in those mags with folks from all over the world! And I believe that the IS/IP debates opened up cans of worms which still need to be fleshed out further in this martial art.

This is also my view beside that the fact that I rarely posted a contribution. Wouldn't it an idea to take some threads and make a publication out of them? Where the contributions can be cited but put into a more fluid text to read.

Michael Gallagher wrote: In both instances, I've seen when new people joined. "Dying" arts don't attract new people. I would look at other reasons why Aikiweb's activity is down before making a broader pronouncement about Aikido.

Dying arts do attract new people. They just attract them at an insufficient rate. The decline of attendance and dying of the dojos is obviously observable, is it not? Aikido in year 2000 was actually a thriving practice attracting young students. Now the classes are usually filled with the middle-aged students and older.

As for the other argument being floated around here - it's not just about Aikiweb being an antiquated form of Internet forums. There are gaming forums out there which are outdated, running vBulletin and other "old" systems, which have multiple posts on multiple subforums every day. It's not about the technology.

Reddit is not antiquated technology. If you look at Reddit /r/Aikido you will see that it's pretty much a cemetery. This does not extend to Reddits of martial arts which are actually popular.

Well, people are still here chatting. I pop in from time to time too. And here I am! And, during and after Covid, the number of people viewing my online book via this site have surged.

I have gotten involved training in Internal Power with Dan Harden. It is a long interesting
journey, that has made my study of Aikido reinvigorated after over 40 years of Aikido.

I understand he has been 'banned' from this site and see that at as shame.

His training is to show us what O'Sensei had in terms of power. But the training
crosses multiple arts, Tai Chi, wing Chun, Daito Ryu, Hsing-I, Bagua, BJJ ....and
Aikido.

Been to busy training to check back in frequently. Go find what can enrich your art.

Larry Feldman wrote: I have gotten involved training in Internal Power with Dan Harden. It is a long interesting journey, that has made my study of Aikido reinvigorated after over 40 years of Aikido. I understand he has been 'banned' from this site and see that at as shame. His training is to show us what O'Sensei had in terms of power. But the training crosses multiple arts, Tai Chi, wing Chun, Daito Ryu, Hsing-I, Bagua, BJJ ....and Aikido. Been to busy training to check back in frequently. Go find what can enrich your art.

I wasn't aware he was banned. My issue with all the internal power discussions is if you read back through the archives people will be discussing how to do this or that technique, or showing some video, then invariably some internal strength person will come along and the discussion will be "It's all wrong, you need aiki", "OK great, so what's aiki? What should I do?", "Can't tell you", "Can you even show me a video of what I should be doing?", "Nope"

It's not exactly very enlightening.

It's a deep well, and not simply explained. It is best experienced hands on. Dan teaches in Norway pretty regularly, and has some regulars there who can definately give you an introduction if you are interested. Not sure how to spell it, but one of Dan's guys names is Matae.

If you see it on a video it looks fake, if you feel it, you are posed with the 'red pill/blue pill' decsiion from the matrix, or if you are a litle older Alice through the looking glass. Some people experience it and simply don't want to be a beginner again, or don't want to do the work. it's a LOT of bodywork, mostly solo training. But people who demonstrated it Takeda, and Ueshiba were legendary.

Larry Feldman wrote: It's a deep well, and not simply explained. It is best experienced hands on. Dan teaches in Norway pretty regularly, and has some regulars there who can definately give you an introduction if you are interested. Not sure how to spell it, but one of Dan's guys names is Matae. If you see it on a video it looks fake, if you feel it, you are posed with the 'red pill/blue pill' decsiion from the matrix, or if you are a litle older Alice through the looking glass. Some people experience it and simply don't want to be a beginner again, or don't want to do the work. it's a LOT of bodywork, mostly solo training. But people who demonstrated it Takeda, and Ueshiba were legendary.

Maybe, maybe not. But your response is a classic template example of way too many discussions here. People here talked about something, you brought up internal power, but will not share what you do, what solo exercises, video examples or tutorials, videos showing pressure testing, or anything else that would enlighten the reader. So we have no way to evaluate the response. There's even a bit of taking a swipe at those who aren't 'in the know'.

Regardless of whether internal power is the bee's knees or the owl's bowel, that doesn't add much to the discussion, and there are dozens of threads like that on aikiweb.

I have explained that is does not lend itself to a discription or discussion. "It had to be felt" is the name of one of the topics on the board, and that is really the best way to understand the feeling and results. Dan has gone into a lot of detail on many forums - but there is no way you can learn it through a description or discussion. He does provide a method and principles to do it, and does so in English in a very straightforward way. You see it, feel it in him, and he can get you to experience it - but it takes a small investment of time and money. Then you have to deceide if it is worth the work to you. Those who do can't understand those who don't, but it's an indivdual decision. Some are content with their practice, others want more. Some don't want to be beginners again. Some people can't put their ego aside, and like being the rank they have. It's all fine.

If someone can just explain concepts over the internet and you can 'get it', then everyone would have it, and it wouldn't be so rare.

I could explain to you what it's like to swim, but until you hit the water it's meaningless.

Dan leaned from his Daito Ryu teacher, so it is something native to your art - just not being widely taught.

I had someone I knew and trusted strongly recommend I go see the man, and I have never regretted it or looked back. But you don't know me...

Larry Feldman wrote: Dan leaned from his Daito Ryu teacher, so it is something native to your art - just not being widely taught.

Do people think of that dude as a Daito Ryu guy nowadays? That seems so weird considering the many fights he picked and bridges he burned.

To me he's more like, one of pioneers of post modern Aikido.

Cliff - I would agree with 'Pioneer of post modern Aikido'.

I can't say what people consider Dan today. But his introduction and lessons on Internal Power did come from his Daito Ryu teacher. Dan doesn't practice Daito Ryu anymore. He has practiced Koryu arts as well, and when pressed would consider himself more of a swordsman.

But I see him as a pioneer in trying to bring Internal Power back into the martial arts. He has repeatedly said, go make your Aikido great again.

He doesn't really teach technique per se, it's all about how to develop Internal Power in you, he will often show where it fits in in various arts, which is very interesting because of the universality of the application. But typically you have to develop it in yourself before you can do much application in your art. Once the theory 'connects' you can see it in various arts. I help a karate group with the training and application. It is a very interesting study, and clearly what O'Sensei had.

Larry Feldman wrote: and when pressed would consider himself more of a swordsman

lol oh lord

out there just swording them wokes

Larry Feldman wrote: I have explained that is does not lend itself to a discription or discussion. "It had to be felt" is the name of one of the topics on the board, and that is really the best way to understand the feeling and results. Dan has gone into a lot of detail on many forums - but there is no way you can learn it through a description or discussion. He does provide a method and principles to do it, and does so in English in a very straightforward way. You see it, feel it in him, and he can get you to experience it - but it takes a small investment of time and money. Then you have to deceide if it is worth the work to you. Those who do can't understand those who don't, but it's an indivdual decision. Some are content with their practice, others want more. Some don't want to be beginners again. Some people can't put their ego aside, and like being the rank they have. It's all fine. If someone can just explain concepts over the internet and you can 'get it', then everyone would have it, and it wouldn't be so rare. I could explain to you what it's like to swim, but until you hit the water it's meaningless. Dan leaned from his Daito Ryu teacher, so it is something native to your art - just not being widely taught. I had someone I knew and trusted strongly recommend I go see the man, and I have never regretted it or looked back. But you don't know me...

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. That many threads on Aikiweb, apparently this one too, get turned into very vague discussions about internal power or Dan Harden, but as the internal power people don’t want to actually say what they are doing, there is really nothing then that can be discussed. I mean, great that you are keen on it, but what does it have to do with whether aikiweb is relevant? And if so, what do you hope to discuss about it?

And btw I would be perfectly able to describe swimming or show videos of it to those who don’t swim. I wouldn’t expect them to learn how to swim based on the video, just as I wouldn’t expect someone to learn to apply nikyo, but I could describe the mechanics and hope to have a discussion about it.

Oh how I've missed you all!
Aikido does seem to have shrunk in relative popularity, but this site remains one of the great repositories of information and I think will always be relevant. It is a place that coincided with a lot of learning for a lot of people. This is where I learned what I could about the history and indirectly learn about the different branches and approaches. Maybe it will pick up again, but I agree with the idea that to some degree it feels like it's all been said.
I also agree this thread is like some kind of amusing example of why a lot of the conversation here withered...and, ironically, why a lot of people feel their search for understanding aiki began to flourish. A lot of people connected directly over that *constant* interjection about whatever real aiki is, how it's often missing...and how ineffable it is, too. Although its ineffability is apparently extremely F-ing effable.
What I like though, is how I still "see" a lot of the same people I became acquainted with here continuing to explore whatever aiki/etc. is, effectively doing something similar to what O Sensei did, in their own way. Aikiweb is part of that history.
I much prefer this format over the facebook threads. It would be nice to see it make a comeback.

Benny Goolsby wrote: It's June 2024, a quick look at the forums show that only three have had new posts this year. The forum Voices of the Experienced has been idle for six years. While there is a great deal of information on this site, it seems that it's not inspiring active participation. I am interested in your thoughts?

Yes it is and that won't change in the foreseeable future. Most of other places, especially on facebook, are filled with idiots who think they know something until you explain to them in writing that they don't. Not to mention the people who keep crapping how "aikido hasn't changed since Ueshiba died" when in reality almost everything has changed since then or was even evolving in his own training during his lifetime. I can't count the times I copy/pasted links from this forum to other places to explain to idiots that what they are doing is nothing new. You think they would be grateful that you are giving them a good starting point but nooo. If you're lucky enough and run into a couple of nice people like I did from Tomiki branches who actually explain certain stuff that they do in simple and precise terms you basically made the best of it.

Matthew Gano wrote: Oh how I've missed you all! Aikido does seem to have shrunk in relative popularity, but this site remains one of the great repositories of information and I think will always be relevant. It is a place that coincided with a lot of learning for a lot of people. This is where I learned what I could about the history and indirectly learn about the different branches and approaches. Maybe it will pick up again, but I agree with the idea that to some degree it feels like it's all been said. I also agree this thread is like some kind of amusing example of why a lot of the conversation here withered...and, ironically, why a lot of people feel their search for understanding aiki began to flourish. A lot of people connected directly over that *constant* interjection about whatever real aiki is, how it's often missing...and how ineffable it is, too. Although its ineffability is apparently extremely F-ing effable. What I like though, is how I still "see" a lot of the same people I became acquainted with here continuing to explore whatever aiki/etc. is, effectively doing something similar to what O Sensei did, in their own way. Aikiweb is part of that history. I much prefer this format over the facebook threads. It would be nice to see it make a comeback.

FWIW I do agree this is a much better repository for discussion and information than Facebook, which is a complete buggy nightmare that is impossible to search.

I did read some of Dan Harden's comments on Aikiweb, and was intrigued. Fortunately I had someone I knew, trusted and whose judgment I respected who had experienced training with him. So I made a trip to see for myself. It answered the nagging question I had after many years in the art, which was that since O'Sensi was a man, how come I can't do what he did. Well he had Internal Power, no doubt taught to him by Takeda.

So I do appreciate AikiWeb for the forum, knowledge and connection it provided. After many years of Aikido my focus is more on IP and how to integrte it into my Aikido. I beleive there are not many people doing that, and unfortunately not much forum activity to help me.

Setok - If you have an real interest, go see it for yourself. No description or video (there are some available, look for ones by Roy Goldberg 7th dan Daito Ryu) will get you there, without hands on instruction and someone to practice with you are wasting your time.

Larry Feldman wrote: how come I can't do what he did. Well he had Internal Power, no doubt taught to him by Takeda.

Don't mind if I ask, but do what exactly?

So I do appreciate AikiWeb for the forum, knowledge and connection it provided. After many years of Aikido my focus is more on IP and how to integrte it into my Aikido. I beleive there are not many people doing that, and unfortunately not much forum activity to help me.

And how's that going?

Ueshiba did a number of demonstrations that make no sense until you understand IP. There are some videos of him doing things that are hard to explain. An example would be him sitting in seiza and someone pushing on his forehead unable to push him over.

How's it going? It is going, a continuous work in process. Now when we do techniques there will be places that it seems obvious to insert an IP movement to enhance the technique It is a very interesting deep dive into what really drives technique. After a long time in AIkido - it is interesting again. No longer just1,000 more reps trying to get some small return.

But the intial experience for me was just to develop IP, not to try to put it into technique. You have to have some level of proficiency to use it much. Eventually you start seeing where it fits. Certainly Dan has provided some explicit examples, but eventually you have to explore your own art. It is really fascinating.