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01-26-2012, 04:21 AM
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#1
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 716
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I don't know
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
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01-26-2012, 04:42 AM
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#2
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Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
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Hi Robin,
interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved ).
However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.
So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).
What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions.
enjoy your training,
regards,
Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)
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Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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01-26-2012, 06:02 AM
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#3
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Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,476
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Re: I don't know
I know a little and have a lot to learn. I love being in the question.
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01-26-2012, 06:49 AM
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#4
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Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,202
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Robin, I wish you were here so you could come by the dojo and we could not-know and not-understand together, and then I could take you out to the People's Pint for one (or more) of our fine local beers. Truly, I like the way you think.
Good training to ya.
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01-26-2012, 07:14 AM
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#5
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Location: Louisville Kentucky
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 165
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Re: I don't know
Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".
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01-26-2012, 08:44 AM
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#6
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Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Mark Mueller wrote:
Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".
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Peter Ralston (Principles of Effortless Power) says that not knowing is where the most important things happen.
I'll try to find the exact quote. He says i repeatedly, I believe (but I don't know...).
David
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"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu
"Eternity forever!"
www.esotericorange.com
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01-26-2012, 09:14 AM
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#7
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Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 601
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Re: I don't know
How very Socrates of you.
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01-26-2012, 09:38 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Beginner's Mind is the best thing to keep. In time you will be surprised how hard it is to keep!
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- Right combination works wonders -
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01-26-2012, 02:23 PM
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#9
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Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
Offline
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Re: I don't know
I feel the opposite problem. I know exactly what I'm trying to do, I just can't do it :-)
They say "No, you have to do it like this"
I say "I know! I'm trying!"
I enjoy the struggle.
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- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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01-26-2012, 02:30 PM
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#10
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
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I bet I don't know more than you do!
Gambatte!
Take care,
Matt
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Gambarimashyo!
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01-26-2012, 07:37 PM
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#11
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 193
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Re: I don't know
Getting it. Got it. Lost it. Repeat.
Chasing rainbows.
A dog catching it's tail.
Seeing deeper and deeper into outer space with bigger and better telescopes.
It runs away from us BECAUSE we are chasing it.
As Don said, enjoy the struggle, the destination is always running away from us anyway. I feel a little sorry for those who think, "know" they have got there. Must be boring with nowhere to go !
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Enjoy the journey
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01-26-2012, 08:13 PM
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#12
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Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote:
How very Socrates of you.
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The body is the sock of ki.
That much, I do know.
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"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu
"Eternity forever!"
www.esotericorange.com
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01-27-2012, 12:16 AM
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#13
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Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 362
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
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The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know. -- Socrates
The more you know, the less you understand. -- Lao-Tse
The more you learn, the more you know. The more you know, the more you forget. The more you forget, the less you know. So why bother to learn? -- George Bernard Shaw
or definitively Red Hot Chilli Peppers in Snow (hey oh)
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01-27-2012, 12:18 AM
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#14
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 716
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Hi Robin,
interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved ).
However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.
So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).
What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions.
enjoy your training,
regards,
Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)
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Good questions. I don't know about IS for example. I've never met Dan etc. and I have no way to judge its value. Of course, that is just an example, and there are plenty of other things that I don't know or understand. I'm sure I don't know what half of them are yet.
The post was in response to a lot of the discourse in which many people claim that their way is best or that others don't understand. I thought I should just come out with it and say that, "no, I don't understand". There is nothing wrong with that, but I am enjoying my training and hopefully getting something out of it.
That pint sounds good, Mary. If I am ever up your way, let's get one.
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01-27-2012, 06:00 AM
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#15
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Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
David Orange wrote:
The body is the sock of ki.
That much, I do know.
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David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know
What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?
Sockofki - a little known russian aikidoka?
regards,
Mark
p.s. This much I know - I don't take things seriously enough
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Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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01-27-2012, 06:12 AM
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#16
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Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
Offline
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Re: I don't know
i don't know what i don't know. what i know none of which nonsense knowledge knows not never-mind no how.
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01-27-2012, 08:32 AM
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#17
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Dojo: North Winnipeg Aikikai
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 265
Offline
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Re: I don't know
It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.
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"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
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01-27-2012, 01:27 PM
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#18
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Dojo: Allegheny Aikido, Pitsburgh PA
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 948
Offline
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Re: I don't know
"He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him."
~attributed to various authors...
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01-27-2012, 01:45 PM
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#19
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Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Follow your nose ... it always knows!
Attributed to some knowitall Toucan
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01-27-2012, 02:55 PM
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#20
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Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Jonathan Hay wrote:
It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.
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Or maybe you just need to find a better place to train...
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01-27-2012, 03:26 PM
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#21
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,670
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
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My favorite quote from Ushiro Kenji Sensei in his latest book
Quote:
"What you know is the enemy of learning."
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01-27-2012, 03:35 PM
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#22
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Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know
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Gotta prove I'm a writer somehow...
Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?
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It's a body sock.
Peace.
David
(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)
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"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu
"Eternity forever!"
www.esotericorange.com
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01-28-2012, 09:43 PM
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#23
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Dojo: Shindai Aikikai, Orlando FL
Location: Windermere, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10
Offline
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Re: I don't know
1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead
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01-28-2012, 11:36 PM
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#24
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 716
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
Stephen Fasen wrote:
1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead
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But how do you know that?
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01-29-2012, 05:31 AM
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#25
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Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
Offline
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Re: I don't know
Quote:
David Orange wrote:
(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)
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Hi David
I look forward to it,
regards,
Mark
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Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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