|
|
Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.
If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!
|
01-26-2014, 10:34 AM
|
#1
|
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
Offline
|
Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
|
|
|
|
01-29-2014, 08:44 PM
|
#2
|
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
An interesting side note to the breath training mentioned here - as far back as 2008 Dan Harden insisted that there were breathing exercises in the Sagawa line (there are earlier examples, I know, but this is the one that came up first in search), in opposition to no small amount of sceptacism.
And when this article appears in current times - there is hardly a ripple of controversy. It's interesting to see how much things have changed.
Best,
Chris
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 07:14 AM
|
#3
|
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
|
Well it makes perfect sense that Sagawa's Daito ryu had breath training in it. He certainly brought in a lot of other stuff from Jikishinkage ryu.
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 09:24 AM
|
#4
|
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote:
Well it makes perfect sense that Sagawa's Daito ryu had breath training in it. He certainly brought in a lot of other stuff from Jikishinkage ryu.
|
I meant Sagawa, by the way.
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 09:29 AM
|
#5
|
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote:
I meant Sagawa, by the way.
|
Well, Takeda certainly had Jikishinkage influence - although I note that the article talks about Kogen Itto-ryu.
Best,
Chris
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 09:51 AM
|
#6
|
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Well, Takeda certainly had Jikishinkage influence - although I note that the article talks about Kogen Itto-ryu.
Best,
Chris
|
Hmmm. "Ya", "To", and "Ei" are fairly common kiai shapes...I wonder what the distinctions in Kogen Itto ryu are.
Re-reading this article today, I see some commentary I did not notice before on the idea that there is no vocalization in Daito ryu. Mainline Daito ryu certainly has that today, you can plainly see/hear it on any of the Kondo Sensei videos, and I think I saw a video of a Takumakai embu recently where they use "To!" when executing the finishing blow.
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 10:14 AM
|
#7
|
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote:
Hmmm. "Ya", "To", and "Ei" are fairly common kiai shapes...I wonder what the distinctions in Kogen Itto ryu are.
Re-reading this article today, I see some commentary I did not notice before on the idea that there is no vocalization in Daito ryu. Mainline Daito ryu certainly has that today, you can plainly see/hear it on any of the Kondo Sensei videos, and I think I saw a video of a Takumakai embu recently where they use "To!" when executing the finishing blow.
|
When I Was training with Kondo there was some basic vocalization at the end of things, but nothing very sophisticated or pervasive.
Best,
Chris
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 11:00 AM
|
#8
|
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo & Kiko - NY, PA, MD
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,000
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Some of those stances and thoughts on breath are what make me question from the DR and other arts' lines what they consider breath power versus what would be considered breath power from a more traditional 6 harmonies perspective. I'm not convinced they're the same thing, but as was already mentioned, getting good info around what's being done is problematic at best.
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 11:16 AM
|
#9
|
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote:
Some of those stances and thoughts on breath are what make me question from the DR and other arts' lines what they consider breath power versus what would be considered breath power from a more traditional 6 harmonies perspective. I'm not convinced they're the same thing, but as was already mentioned, getting good info around what's being done is problematic at best.
|
Budd, could you share more about what a "more traditional 6 harmonies" perspective is?
The concept of breath power I've seen in mainline Daito ryu is similar to what I have seen in Jikishinkage ryu - and I don't think it would fit the "internal" frame at all. It's pretty much about packing in a lot of power and then releasing it in some way that breaks your opponent. It could be that both systems reserve different kinds of breath training for higher levels, of course.
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 11:27 AM
|
#10
|
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote:
The concept of breath power I've seen in mainline Daito ryu is similar to what I have seen in Jikishinkage ryu - and I don't think it would fit the "internal" frame at all. It's pretty much about packing in a lot of power and then releasing it in some way that breaks your opponent. It could be that both systems reserve different kinds of breath training for higher levels, of course.
|
Yes, that's pretty much what I saw in Shin-Koiwa with Kondo. Of course, there may well be things he does that I didn't see. OTOH, there are definitely 6H related methods from other traditional Daito-ryu lines.
Best,
Chris
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 12:03 PM
|
#11
|
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo & Kiko - NY, PA, MD
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,000
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Well and there's the rub, packing in power to release with the breath is in most martial arts in some form - the devil is in the details of how it's done.
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 12:54 PM
|
#12
|
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,276
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Yes, that's pretty much what I saw in Shin-Koiwa with Kondo. Of course, there may well be things he does that I didn't see. OTOH, there are definitely 6H related methods from other traditional Daito-ryu lines.
Best,
Chris
|
But we seem to be counting Sagawa-den out along with Tokimune's line? So that leaves....?
|
|
|
|
01-30-2014, 01:03 PM
|
#13
|
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
Offline
|
Re: Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Masaru Takahashi en Adem Training in Daito-ryu
Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote:
But we seem to be counting Sagawa-den out along with Tokimune's line? So that leaves....?
|
I haven't counted either Sagawa or Tokimune out - I'm just saying what I saw at Kondo's dojo.
Best,
Chris
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:15 AM.
|
vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
|
|