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Old 12-08-2011, 08:16 AM   #101
Belt_Up
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Re: The Truth about Violence

If you have a certain set of genes, your probability of committing a violent crime goes up by 882% (see Inocgnito, by David Eagleman, pp 158-159). That set of genes is called the Y chromosome.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:35 AM   #102
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Quote:
Geoff Byers wrote: View Post
If you have a certain set of genes, your probability of committing a violent crime goes up by 882% (see Inocgnito, by David Eagleman, pp 158-159). That set of genes is called the Y chromosome.
If you look at statistic first, then try to extrapolate backwards, you will find yourself with all kinds of incorrect conclusions. For instance, if I look at the genetic makeup of the majority of offenders in American prisons, what commonality would I find? Statistics say that those offenders are primarily black, but we all know that genetics is NOT the reason they are in prison. It's is society and the New Jim Crow which put them there. Same goes towards violence. It's equally rooted in all of us, but society, our surroundings, and "nurture" are what make us act on it and respond to it.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:51 AM   #103
Marc Abrams
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Quote:
Roger Flatley wrote: View Post
Again, I don't think gender is relevant. True, men have more testosterone, but it doesn't mean that they have to act aggressive and violently. Many don't. I guess my point is that violence, and the way in which we respond to it, is not dependent upon whether we are a man or woman.
Roger:

I have yet to see you respond to any thread in a manner that displays any genuine understanding, knowledge, or experience of the issues that you like to discuss. It does not matter whether or not you believe gender is relevant. Aggression and violence is related strongly to gender, which is the result of genetics and biochemistry at work. You are talking about variables of an issue. Genetics, biochemistry and gender are clearly identified and substantiated variables when there is a scientific review of aggression and violence. Your opinions are not variables and are irrelevant to an objective discussion of the topic.

Marc Abrams
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:37 AM   #104
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Re: The Truth about Violence

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Roger:

I have yet to see you respond to any thread in a manner that displays any genuine understanding, knowledge, or experience of the issues that you like to discuss. It does not matter whether or not you believe gender is relevant. Aggression and violence is related strongly to gender, which is the result of genetics and biochemistry at work. You are talking about variables of an issue. Genetics, biochemistry and gender are clearly identified and substantiated variables when there is a scientific review of aggression and violence. Your opinions are not variables and are irrelevant to an objective discussion of the topic.
Marc Abrams
I had no intention of directing this topic towards gender specifically, but it seemed that became the focus of this thread. I was mainly just trying to stay with it for the sake of ongoing discussion. I probably should've backed out after the one word post with the picture of rape victims. That was clearly indicative that the tone of the thread had changed.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:57 AM   #105
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: The Truth about Violence

When a women is raped she can become pregnant. That would be one way that women and men react to some forms of violence. If a man is raped, he is hurt... then he can deal with it. When a woman bears a child of rape she has a life long reminder of that act of violence.

Gender is also relevant because most men are stronger than most women. Not to mention much more likely to use a weapon.

You don't hear about many bands of women roaming around the country side randomly raping anyone that comes along.

Women are socialized to be more passive so we do respond differently, generally to violence.

To say that gender is not factor is irresponsible.

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Old 12-08-2011, 11:42 AM   #106
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Quote:
You don't hear about many bands of women roaming around the country side randomly raping anyone that comes along.
Where at, in the Congo? Why not single them out for being black, as oppossed to being men. It's just as arbitrary. I don't see bands of white men going around the countryside raping women. It must be because they are black, since white men don't do this. Just going by your logic here.

I'm digressing, but I'm sorry, I have enough respect for myself as a man to not let anyone sit there and speak badly of men in front of me. Imagine if were to start talking about "men's rights" the way others on here have spoken about women's rights.
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Old 12-08-2011, 12:33 PM   #107
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Quote:
Roger Flatley wrote: View Post
If you look at statistic first, then try to extrapolate backwards, you will find yourself with all kinds of incorrect conclusions. For instance, if I look at the genetic makeup of the majority of offenders in American prisons, what commonality would I find? Statistics say that those offenders are primarily black, but we all know that genetics is NOT the reason they are in prison. It's is society and the New Jim Crow which put them there. Same goes towards violence. It's equally rooted in all of us, but society, our surroundings, and "nurture" are what make us act on it and respond to it.
That's a good point about statistics, but I'm not sure violence is equally rooted in all of us. I think it's probably rooted to some degree in all of us, and in that sense alone are we equal in our potential for acting with violence and aggression. From what little I've learned in my handful of psychology courses, there is a definate link between testosterone and aggression. In that sense, men are more prone toward violence than women, generally speaking. This doesn't mean women are immune from cultural/situational factors that might cause violent behavior, just that all other things being equal, men tend toward violent behavior more than women.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 12-08-2011, 12:53 PM   #108
Marc Abrams
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
That's a good point about statistics, but I'm not sure violence is equally rooted in all of us. I think it's probably rooted to some degree in all of us, and in that sense alone are we equal in our potential for acting with violence and aggression. From what little I've learned in my handful of psychology courses, there is a definate link between testosterone and aggression. In that sense, men are more prone toward violence than women, generally speaking. This doesn't mean women are immune from cultural/situational factors that might cause violent behavior, just that all other things being equal, men tend toward violent behavior more than women.
Matt:

Actually his use of statistics was a poor attempt at sophistry. Trying to compare absolutely unrelated issues, treating them as similar variables that can be compared, is something that spin doctors do. Anybody schooled in basic statistics looks at attempts like that as clear signs of someone spinning tales with no real grounding in statistics. The totality of the body of scientific literature points to nature over nurture (sorry about that Mary). I outlined the major, substantiated variables. This information stands immune to our feelings about ourselves as men and women in a society. Violence is an easy topic to try and mold into some politically correct ideology. Only serves to take away the more important focus on real-life variables and conditions that can be addressed.

Marc Abrams
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Old 12-08-2011, 01:03 PM   #109
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Quote:
Roger Flatley wrote: View Post
Where at, in the Congo? Why not single them out for being black, as oppossed to being men. It's just as arbitrary. I don't see bands of white men going around the countryside raping women. It must be because they are black, since white men don't do this. Just going by your logic here.

I'm digressing, but I'm sorry, I have enough respect for myself as a man to not let anyone sit there and speak badly of men in front of me. Imagine if were to start talking about "men's rights" the way others on here have spoken about women's rights.
Do a little digging into Frat house behavior in America.

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Old 12-08-2011, 01:05 PM   #110
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: The Truth about Violence

I am not men bashing. I love men. Try to not personlize it then you can learn more about it.

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Old 12-08-2011, 03:07 PM   #111
mathewjgano
 
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Matt:

Actually his use of statistics was a poor attempt at sophistry. Trying to compare absolutely unrelated issues, treating them as similar variables that can be compared, is something that spin doctors do. Anybody schooled in basic statistics looks at attempts like that as clear signs of someone spinning tales with no real grounding in statistics. The totality of the body of scientific literature points to nature over nurture (sorry about that Mary). I outlined the major, substantiated variables. This information stands immune to our feelings about ourselves as men and women in a society. Violence is an easy topic to try and mold into some politically correct ideology. Only serves to take away the more important focus on real-life variables and conditions that can be addressed.

Marc Abrams
Hi Marc,
I seem to recall being told something similar about statistics though: that because stats are so specific in application, it's easy to misapply them and read too much into them. The example of prison populations is something that was given to me for how statistics can be misrepresented. I don't think he was addressing the specific statitics you were thinking of and was just trying to point out that principle as a way of supporting the doubt he has. I agree it didn't apply to what you were describing, which my basic level of study seemed to corroborate...for what little that's worth.
I take his meaning to be that we all can be violent, and that's the idea that I was agreeing with.
I do wonder how much our "junk DNA" plays a role in creating genetic markers for violence and aggression when violence is consistently nurtured though. Are there any longitudinal studies of women including the times before they began to chronically express violence?
Take care,
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:58 PM   #112
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: The Truth about Violence

Guns, Germs, and Steel is a real good read on this subject.

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