|
|
Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.
If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!
|
03-21-2012, 04:35 PM
|
#1
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Reigi- Correct behaviour
Hi.. This thread is about Reigi- Correct behaviour.
1. What is your idea about correct behaviour in the dojo ?
2. How does it affect training ?
3. How does correct behaviour translate to the world outside of the dojo ?
Please tell me more !
In aiki
Lars
Last edited by lars beyer : 03-21-2012 at 04:37 PM.
Reason: ? was missing
|
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 01:58 AM
|
#2
|
Dojo: Hildesheimer Aikido Verein
Location: Hildesheim
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 932
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
How do you undertand "correct" when used with reigi?
Are you aware that there are many, many different forms or ways of formally correct behavior?
Does that make a difference for you?
|
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 02:09 AM
|
#3
|
Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 362
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
I agree there are different forms of reigi according to art, class and gender in Japanese society (indeed in all societies)
However they all have a common goal - mutual respect. As long as you have that the external form is unimportant in my view
|
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 03:13 AM
|
#4
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote:
How do you undertand "correct" when used with reigi?
Are you aware that there are many, many different forms or ways of formally correct behavior?
Does that make a difference for you?
|
Thanks for asking, even I am not sure I can answer your question fully, but I´ll try.
The outer form varies like you suggest. The meaning of reigi as well. For me correct reigi means that the outer form is accompanied with an inner meaning, that it works on several levels apart from being an empty ritual.
I bow, but I don´t just bow, I bow to (try) to show respect or because I feel gratitude towards my seniors and my sensei or my juniors. I also bow to learn to appreciate bowing, to practise it. For me coming to Japan, bowing was the one most difficult thing to understand, not in terms of actually doing it, but to make it come naturally and integrating it with my behaviour. I felt like an elephant in a glassworks store.
Why do we bow to our training partner ?
As far as I know we do it as a formal appreciation before and after practise.. For instance, if I happen to be a little rough with one of my fellow students, bowing afterwards with sincerity and a short look in the eyes can "reset" our encounter and we can move on with practise without feeling bad about what happened.
In relation to correct reigi outside the dojo, I feel sometimes that an oppertunity is missed because we sort of "leave the ego when we enter the dojo".. And we "put it on again" when we leave.. just like the shoes standing in a row outside the dojo. This was the sort of thing I was thinking when I
started this thread.
I´m not jumping to conclusions, I´m asking questions and to your question whether it matters to me that there are many different ways to perform correct reigi, I would say yes it matters to me in the sence that I am willing to see what other people have to offer- that´s one of the resons why I read this forum and why I ask questions.
Cheers
Lars
|
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 03:30 AM
|
#5
|
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,902
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
IMHO, treating each other with respect, compassion, and humility always seems to be the "correct" thing to do.
Now, how that is expressed may be different according to the turf/dojo. Check with the locals.
|
Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 03:47 AM
|
#6
|
Dojo: Hildesheimer Aikido Verein
Location: Hildesheim
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 932
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, treating each other with respect, compassion, and humility ...
|
Hhmm, is reigi only about the relationsship to someone else?
Doesn't it also affect oneself?
|
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 06:51 AM
|
#7
|
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,202
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Dave Lowry wrote a number of essays on the subject of reigi -- you can find one here. It addresses the subject of bowing, specifically, but also talks briefly about the history of the Ogasawara ryu, which gives some historical context on the relationship between etiquette and the martial arts.
I like Lowry's essays, although a scholar might quibble that by reading them, I'm taking a "lite" approach to these subjects. He seems to have done his own research, though, and I find his writing to be engaging and thoughtful. Perhaps most importantly, he's very good at placing his subjects within their context, giving them due respect without the unfortunate tendency to idolatrous over-veneration of classical Japanese window-dressing that we sometimes find in martial arts.
|
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 07:18 AM
|
#8
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote:
Dave Lowry wrote a number of essays on the subject of reigi -- you can find one here. It addresses the subject of bowing, specifically, but also talks briefly about the history of the Ogasawara ryu, which gives some historical context on the relationship between etiquette and the martial arts.
I like Lowry's essays, although a scholar might quibble that by reading them, I'm taking a "lite" approach to these subjects. He seems to have done his own research, though, and I find his writing to be engaging and thoughtful. Perhaps most importantly, he's very good at placing his subjects within their context, giving them due respect without the unfortunate tendency to idolatrous over-veneration of classical Japanese window-dressing that we sometimes find in martial arts.
|
Thanks, interresting reading !
|
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 11:19 AM
|
#9
|
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,193
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
A Thought on Reigi Saho by Mitsunari Kanai sensei:
http://www.aikidoexpress.com/?p=555
|
Nagababa
ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
|
|
|
03-22-2012, 11:37 AM
|
#10
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
|
Thanks for posting this link
|
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 03:19 AM
|
#11
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
|
Hi Szczepan,
Interresting reading, it made sence to me and helped putting light on some of the various connections between various topics I have been thinking about.
Great
Regards
Lars
|
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 07:18 AM
|
#12
|
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
don't treat people as things
|
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 08:04 AM
|
#13
|
Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 803
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Phi Truong wrote:
don't treat people as things
|
What said that?
(sorry... friday humor.. I agree very much but couldn't resist the opportunity to make a bad joke.. )
|
- Jørgen Jakob Friis
Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 09:41 AM
|
#14
|
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
In our modern, inclusive world, it's not surprising that we would say that the attitude of respect and humility matter more than the outward form.
But in a martial context, the outward form matters a lot, too. Putting your hands too close to your sword (or your gun, on the American frontier) at the wrong time could get you killed. Many of the details of sword-handling etiquette are ways to reassure everyone involved that you're not about to slice them up. Awareness of those details (or their absence) is how you decide if the stranger at your door is as harmless as he claims, or a potential assassin.
Awareness and attention to detail are just as important today. People who see reigi as only about attitude are, I think, missing an opportunity to cultivate more tangible martial skills.
Katherine
|
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 11:21 AM
|
#15
|
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,193
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Lars Beyer wrote:
Hi Szczepan,
Interresting reading, it made sence to me and helped putting light on some of the various connections between various topics I have been thinking about.
Great
Regards
Lars
|
Hi Lars,
I'm glad you like it. Kanai sensei teaching is for me very important inspiration, and I believe he can be also for aikidoka from other styles. He followed similar path to Nishio sensei and Chiba sensei in his development.
|
Nagababa
ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 11:43 AM
|
#16
|
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Lars Beyer wrote:
Hi.. This thread is about Reigi- Correct behaviour.
1. What is your idea about correct behaviour in the dojo ?
2. How does it affect training ?
3. How does correct behaviour translate to the world outside of the dojo ?
Please tell me more !
In aiki
Lars
|
Dear Lars,
Outside the dojo? I see very little to commend Aikido in this area in relation to correct behaviour.What I would term Big Aikido. There can be a vast difference between what is preached in the dojo and what is practiced out side.I am not convinced that Aikido can change anybodys original character entirely.You are who you are .You may change [not always for the better] slightly .A leopard rarely changes its spots.
Power corrupts /absolute power corrupts absolutely. Cheers, Joe.
|
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 02:07 PM
|
#17
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Hi Lars,
I'm glad you like it. Kanai sensei teaching is for me very important inspiration, and I believe he can be also for aikidoka from other styles. He followed similar path to Nishio sensei and Chiba sensei in his development.
|
Thanks again, who is Chiba sensei ?
Best
Lars
|
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 02:22 PM
|
#18
|
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,193
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Lars Beyer wrote:
Thanks again, who is Chiba sensei ?
Best
Lars
|
http://www.aikidoexpress.com/?cat=15
|
Nagababa
ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 02:34 PM
|
#19
|
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Lars Beyer wrote:
Thanks again, who is Chiba sensei ?
Best
Lars
|
My head just imploded ...
|
|
|
|
03-23-2012, 02:44 PM
|
#20
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote:
My head just imploded ...
|
I´m sorry.. if you continue reading my threads that might become a habit of yours..
Last edited by lars beyer : 03-23-2012 at 02:49 PM.
Reason: to add a few more words
|
|
|
|
03-24-2012, 06:44 AM
|
#21
|
Location: Edmonton, AB
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 802
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Reigi is good manners. Politeness.
The usual practice is to use "Japanese politeness" which is different in details from "Western politeness", but it's still good manners.
For example - and this isn't dojo - it's rude in Japan to stick your chopsticks in a bowl of food when you're not using them - To Japanese it signifies death, somehow resembling a pot full of bones or something, but to westerners it means nothing. Kinda like being careful when to say "shi" versus "yon" when saying "four" - again, because "shi" sounds a bit like death or dead... (we say Yondan, not Shidan, for example)
Cheers,
W
|
|
|
|
03-24-2012, 10:58 AM
|
#22
|
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
http://www.missmanners.com/
In my experience - non-Japanese tend to be a lot more fanatic about it then most of what I encountered in Japan at Japanese dojo. Kind of like Alec Guiness in A Majority of One.
Best,
Chris
|
|
|
|
03-25-2012, 07:31 AM
|
#23
|
Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 566
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Goo ni itte wa, goo ni shitagae...follow the rules of the village you are in.....trouble is you don't always know what rules a village has when you enter.
|
|
|
|
03-25-2012, 07:54 AM
|
#24
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
..Louis... I think this is a beginning of a beautifull friendship..!
|
|
|
|
03-25-2012, 08:26 AM
|
#25
|
Dojo: Copenhagen Aikishuren Dojo
Location: Denmark
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 282
Offline
|
Re: Reigi- Correct behaviour
Quote:
Lars Beyer wrote:
..Louis... I think this is a beginning of a beautifull friendship..!
|
(psst.. "Casablance", last line by Bogart)
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:57 PM.
|
vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
|
|