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05-31-2002, 03:30 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 52
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Sensei? Sempai?
Hello,
Our Sensei has been coming to class late for the past few weeks, for family reasons. A sempai (his 'oldest' student, actually) has been taking over and giving us classes on a regular basis. I called him 'Sensei' today and he got upset, and told me to call him 'Sempai'. But Sensei wasn't around and we had no idea wether he was going to show up today or not anyway.
Isn't it proper/ethical to call him Sensei, especially that he teaches Aikido himself (but at other dojos)?
I mean, when Sensei isn't around and might not show up, and a Sempai takes over, doesn't he automatically become a 'subtitute Sensei'? What do you think? Or better still, is there some sort of an ethical code relating to such cases?
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blessings,
~ Mona
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05-31-2002, 03:44 PM
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#3
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 52
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Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
Here's Chris Li's interpretation (along witha quick note from me) of the term "sensei":
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Judging from that, it's safe to call him Sensei then.
My Sempai was simply being modest.
Not that I'm surprised or anything.
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blessings,
~ Mona
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05-31-2002, 03:52 PM
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#4
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Location: Chicago, IL
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 432
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Our dojo's sensei passed away a few years ago, and since then, his senior students teach all of the classes. We do not refer to any of the current instructors in our dojo as sensei, but rather address them by their first names. This is done more out of respect for our late Sensei, and to preserve our memories of him. The only people we call sensei in our dojo nowadays are guest instructors from either Aikikai Hombu dojo or outside our association. I guess it's just each to his/her own...
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Robert Cronin
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05-31-2002, 07:37 PM
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#5
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Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,308
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There is an awful lot of local tradition connected with these two terms in aikido, and so perhaps there will be little consensus on a bulletin board such as this.
When I was a student in the UK and began to teach aikido classes at the main London dojo in the abence of Kanetsuka Sensei, no one ever used the term 'Sensei'. I suppose we would have been 'shidoin', but this is a descriptive term, not really a title.
And we never, ever used the term 'sempai' to refer to senior members of the dojo. This term is not really of the same kind as 'sensei'. In my university aikido club, there is a shihan, fuku-shihan, kantoku, and every single member is in a relationship of sempai or kohai to everyone else. The term 'sensei' is used only of people like myself, who are outside the club system. Similarly, in the city aikido dojo, neither 'sensei' nor 'sempai' are ever used, the chief instructor always being referred to as 'dojo-cho'. But this is the custom in Japan.
On the other hand, there is a custom (outside Japan in my experience) to refer to the person who teaches the class as 'sensei' and this happened at the recent Aiki Expo in Las Vegas. I do not have any real objection to this, but it is not a universal custom. In Holland, where I regularly instruct, I am known by my first name (as I am throughout the Aikikai) and 'sensei' is never used, even when I am teaching. This might be thought disrespectful, but I think that the quality of training is more important than the way you refer to the instructor.
Best regards,
Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 05-31-2002 at 07:41 PM.
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P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
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06-03-2002, 04:27 PM
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#6
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Dojo: Shindenkan Budo Renmei
Location: South Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1
Offline
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Sensei? Sempai?
Ohayo my friends. It was taught to us that there is more to the names than just a being the teacher. It is an earned rank or title ,if you will. So in our school a sempai is always a sempai until he has earned to be called sensei within that dojo.
Respectfully,
Brian C.
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All the Answers are within us,
Brian
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06-03-2002, 04:51 PM
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#7
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
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Where I first trained, folks would bow out thanking "sensei" if the chief instructor had taught, and thanking "semipai" if a senior student had taught the class. So that's what feels "normal" to me
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07-20-2008, 08:57 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Old thread, but I found it doing a google search trying to answer a similar question as the original poster.
Just found out, or understood, that in our system no one is a sensei until they are 3rd dan or higher.
2nd dan and lower are sempai.
In the same token, a brown belt can teach here - seems I read somewhere that stateside usually 2nd dans teach.
People here dont typically get their brown belt, from what I have seen, until 7 years or so.
Black is typically longer by the looks of it.
Anyway, it seems it really is a depends on system then.
I was under the impression that if you were black belt and teacher you were a sensei.
Peace
dAlen
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07-20-2008, 11:10 AM
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#9
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
I'm thinking 'gratitude is gratitude.'
My students just kinda started calling me Jensei out of the blue one day. I really like the humor and friendliness inherent in it. And if anyone is in doubt as to who sensei is they can ask the dojo-cho: me.
Aikido needs be taken seriously, but we don't need to take ourselves so seriously, honestly.
Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-20-2008 at 11:13 AM.
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Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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07-20-2008, 11:11 AM
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#10
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Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,502
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
This term has on its own taken on a sense of entitlement outside of Japan, whereas in Japan it is merely a description of one's vocation. It's probably best to just do as the Romans do. I have never personally offended anybody (to my knowledge) by calling them "Sensei", so that's a new one on me. Your sempai should probably just try to lighten up.
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07-20-2008, 11:25 AM
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#11
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
This term has on its own taken on a sense of entitlement outside of Japan, whereas in Japan it is merely a description of one's vocation. It's probably best to just do as the Romans do. I have never personally offended anybody (to my knowledge) by calling them "Sensei", so that's a new one on me. Your sempai should probably just try to lighten up.
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Yeah. Take a pill.
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Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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07-20-2008, 12:02 PM
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#12
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote:
Old thread, but I found it doing a google search trying to answer a similar question as the original poster.
Just found out, or understood, that in our system no one is a sensei until they are 3rd dan or higher.
2nd dan and lower are sempai.
In the same token, a brown belt can teach here - seems I read somewhere that stateside usually 2nd dans teach.
People here dont typically get their brown belt, from what I have seen, until 7 years or so.
Black is typically longer by the looks of it.
Anyway, it seems it really is a depends on system then.
I was under the impression that if you were black belt and teacher you were a sensei.
Peace
dAlen
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The Shodokan system is similar, if I'm remembering correctly. 3rd dan are referred to as sensei, 2nd dan are not. I was training briefly under a pair of great 2nd dans and when one was promoted I was told it's more appropriate to call him sensei now.
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Gambarimashyo!
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07-20-2008, 12:40 PM
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#13
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
At a seminar once, an Aikikai 5th Dan (Japanese) corrected me and told me not to call him "sensei"... Perhaps the fact that he was there acting as the uke for an Aikikai 8th Dan shihan had something to do with it..
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-20-2008, 01:03 PM
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#14
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Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Well it seems that this topic is true to Aikido - (namely a million different ways to skin the cat)
But in the end there is a common thread behind it all.
Matthew it was interesting what you said about Shodokan.
I have been trying to nail exactly what style best fits what we do...because it seems we are a blend of a few, contrasting, systems.
(Which is good.)
I saw some clips on youtube when I searched for Shodokan Aikido, and their zealousness has some semblance in what we do.
Anyway - from what Im gathering, it seems with our system a master is equivalent to the word sensei. (Which starts at 3rd dan.) Again, this is what I gather from how I understand the Hungarian.
Point is, the guys 3rd degree and above really are fluid, and have basically been doing it their whole life it seems.
I agree with Jennifer about her comment where people can take things a bit to serious. I understand, somewhat, where the orginal posters Sempai is coming from. They are 'into' the art and are trying to be as 'pure' to it as they can be. (This to is good, each has to float their own boat, as it were.)
Peace
dAlen
p.s.
Just wanted to add, the more I learn about Aikido - the more, as I said above, I realize that it truly is a diverse system unto itself. So many comments are here and there about what works and what doesnt. People put Aikido in a box and dont realize there are multiple boxes with the name Aikido on it.
Be true to yourself.
Last edited by dalen7 : 07-20-2008 at 01:08 PM.
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07-20-2008, 01:40 PM
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#15
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Location: Edmonton, AB
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 802
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
My understanding of "sempai" was that it was usually one-half of the "sempai-kohai" relationship - where the sempai is a senior who took a kohai (junior) under his wing. I don't know if the same relationship traditionally exists for women - it may, and the terms may even be the same, or different - I only observed it in males in Tokyo.
At our dojo in Regina Saskatchewan, we were developing a sempai-kohai system. One of the things we had (we used coloured belts there) was that the more senior students (sempai) handed down their coloured belt to their kohai when the kohai was graded to that colour of belt. We were held responsible for our kohai's etiquette errors and if the kohai's ukemi wasn't up to our sensei's expectations, the kohai didn't take the thrashing, the sempai did...
W
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07-20-2008, 01:49 PM
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#16
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
I have heard Japanese females calling their seniors, whether male or female, "sempai"... at least in anime (eg, "Taiho Shichauzo" and "Boys Be")
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-20-2008, 01:54 PM
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#17
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Dojo: Shindai Aikikai
Location: Orlando
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 153
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote:
I have heard Japanese females calling their seniors, whether male or female, "sempai".. . at least in anime (eg, "Taiho Shichauzo" and "Boys Be")
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LOL!
For what it's worth, it's the same in Japanese RPG video games.
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"The mind is everything. What you think you become." - Siddhattha Gotama Buddha
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07-21-2008, 04:13 AM
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#18
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Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,308
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Quote:
Walter Martindale wrote:
My understanding of "sempai" was that it was usually one-half of the "sempai-kohai" relationship - where the sempai is a senior who took a kohai (junior) under his wing. I don't know if the same relationship traditionally exists for women - it may, and the terms may even be the same, or different - I only observed it in males in Tokyo.
W
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In my experience at Hiroshima University, the sempai-kohai relationship transcended sexual differences. There were two broad types of student clubs: the 体育会 (Tai-iku-kai or sports club groups) and the サークル連盟 (Circle groups). There were aikido clubs in both groups. The two clubs with which I was most closely associated (Tai-iku-kai Aikido-bu) and the ESS (English Speaking Society) were in the two different groupings, but the kohai addressed their seniors by the 'Sempai' title, even if the kohai was male and the sempai was female.
There were subtle differences. It was not a general policy in the Circle Renmei clubs for kohai to use keigo (especially polite Japanese) when addressing their sempai, but in the Taiikukai clubs the practice of using keigo was the rule and was fairly rigidly followed (the rigidity also varying from club to club).
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P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
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07-21-2008, 05:25 AM
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#19
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Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,476
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote:
I'm thinking 'gratitude is gratitude.'
My students just kinda started calling me Jensei out of the blue one day. I really like the humor and friendliness inherent in it. And if anyone is in doubt as to who sensei is they can ask the dojo-cho: me.
Aikido needs be taken seriously, but we don't need to take ourselves so seriously, honestly.
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Love this.
Mary
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07-21-2008, 11:01 AM
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#20
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Dojo: Allegheny Aikido
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 166
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
I'm sure there are a million different answers to this. In my experience there are quite a few dojos in which whomever is teaching class is 'sensei.' That seems to be especially true if the dojo has a number of instructors of similar rank. Others, in which the head instructor is MUCH more senior to everybody else, they are 'sensei' and generally everybody else goes by their first names.
In my dojo I prefer people to just address me by my first name. A few call me sensei and that's fine - I don't see any point in making a big deal out of it one way or another.
I have heard (and used) a hybrid form off address - using the first name followed by 'sensei.' To me it sounds a bit more casual than just 'Sensei' but more formal and respectful than the first name alone. I use it with people who are my seniors and whom I know very well. If I'm ever unsure, I always default to 'Sensei' - better to be too polite than not polite enough, I think!
Anyway, that's my $0.02.
Cheers,
Garth
PS I think 'Jensei' is very cool.
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07-21-2008, 03:28 PM
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#21
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Quote:
Garth Jones wrote:
PS I think 'Jensei' is very cool.
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Thank you, Garth Sensei .
My teacher used to say, 'When in doubt, bow." I think that covers the kind of spirit we're covering here, don't you?
Jensei
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Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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07-21-2008, 04:09 PM
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#22
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Location: California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 48
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
What's the proper etiquette for say.. you are at a seminar somewhere with your sensei from your dojo, and the class is being taught by someone other than your sensei. Is it still correct to refer to your sensei as "sensei" during that class, or should there be one and only one "sensei" during the class i.e the one teaching....
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07-21-2008, 10:49 PM
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#23
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Dojo: Bucks County Aikido
Location: Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 425
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Quote:
Robert Cronin wrote:
Our dojo's sensei passed away a few years ago, and since then, his senior students teach all of the classes. We do not refer to any of the current instructors in our dojo as sensei, but rather address them by their first names. This is done more out of respect for our late Sensei, and to preserve our memories of him. The only people we call sensei in our dojo nowadays are guest instructors from either Aikikai Hombu dojo or outside our association. I guess it's just each to his/her own...
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We do the same at our dojo whenever Sensei tells a student to lead the class.
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07-22-2008, 10:35 AM
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#24
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Dojo: Allegheny Aikido
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 166
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
Jensei -
Yep, I think 'when in doubt bow' is just the right spirit. And, perhaps, when really in doubt, sit seiza and bow, if you're not already sitting.
Quote:
What's the proper etiquette for say.. you are at a seminar somewhere with your sensei from your dojo, and the class is being taught by someone other than your sensei. Is it still correct to refer to your sensei as "sensei" during that class, or should there be one and only one "sensei" during the class i.e the one teaching....
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Two thoughts - 1. ask your teacher what he or she thinks is correct and do that. 2. If don't have the chance to ask, using 'sensei' too much is better than not enough. Again, when in doubt, bow.
Cheers,
Garth
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07-22-2008, 11:00 AM
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#25
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Dojo: Aikikai de l'Université Laval
Location: Sainte-Catherine-de-la-J.-C., Québec
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 292
Offline
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Re: Sensei? Sempai?
I tend to use sensei for anyone teaching the class. But we don't really have a set rule and nobody really seems to know what to do when a more junior member is filling in for our chief instructor.
Outside of the dojo, my sensei becomes "Pierre", despite his being a 6th dan. I also address at least one shihan by his first name outside of the dojo. But then modern Quebec is a pretty informal place, and out of the dojo, the local culture takes over and we're just a bunch of guys that have known each other for years.
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Jonathan Olson
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