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Old 01-14-2003, 11:23 AM   #51
opherdonchin
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But what we are talking about (as far as I understand) is the energy that Anonymous gets from increased awareness of sexuality following AiKiDo training. Mike wanted to talk about how that might pervert the training by introducing (to his mind innapropriately) sexual thoughts into training. Now he wants to talk about how actually having sex (outside the dojo) may corrupt the purity of your path. Neither of these is really about the point made by the original poster which had more to do with awareness than with actions.

I have always found it interesting and sort of inexplicable that so many religions take such a negative and closed minded view about sexuality. It seems especially weird to me in a religion that can otherwise be so open minded and aware, like Zen.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 01-14-2003, 11:49 AM   #52
mike lee
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guarding the mind

Quote:
But what we are talking about (as far as I understand) is the energy that Anonymous gets from increased awareness of sexuality following AiKiDo training.
And I agree it all begins with the mind.

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, `You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. [Matthew 8:27]

It would then seem reasonable to question whether Anonymous' "method?" of "getting?" energy is appropriate.

Last edited by mike lee : 01-14-2003 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 01-29-2003, 01:03 PM   #53
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I just found this interesting paragraph in John Stevens' "Secrets of Aikido." p.5

"There is another meaning of aiki that is central to true harmony: the consummate union of a man and a woman, a blissful state of complete phsysical and spiritual intimacy. (In Chinese sex manuals, aiki was the term used for the ultimate sexual experience.) The natural and pure integration of male and female principles is at the heart of all creation. Libido should not be mistaken for mere concupiscence but rather should be understood as a sincere yearning for integration and fulfillment. Male and female remain barren until united; the desire to cleave together as one, to restore the primordial unity is a key goal of Aikido (and all other arts)."
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Old 01-29-2003, 03:51 PM   #54
shihonage
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Looks like a bunch of people here need a cold shower.
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Old 01-30-2003, 05:49 AM   #55
Kelly Allen
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I got such a laugh out of this thread. It is always extremely funny to see people taking things out of context, or trying to apply there religious views to something that was obviously ment to refer to a psycological response to a physical envionrment. not too much more. Nothing like reading between the lines. Keep up the thread! I'll keep coming back to it to get more laughs.
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Old 01-30-2003, 06:19 AM   #56
mike lee
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from the little people

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I got such a laugh out of this thread. It is always extremely funny to see people taking things out of context, or trying to apply there religious views to something that was obviously ment to refer to a psycological response to a physical envionrment. not too much more. Nothing like reading between the lines. Keep up the thread! I'll keep coming back to it to get more laughs.
Yes, you are soooo far above and beyond some of us mental midgets. But it's soooo nice of you to stoop down and grace us with your presence, just so you can have a laugh.

Byt the way are you parcticing the art of aikido or the art of aloofness?
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Old 01-30-2003, 06:28 AM   #57
Kelly Allen
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hehehe hahaha hohoho har har cough sputter snort!
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Old 01-30-2003, 11:24 AM   #58
Ghost Fox
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It never ceases to amaze me how people can turn a civil yet passionate discussion and turn it into a name calling and finger pointing event. It's one of the main reasons I don't post very often.

I might not agree with the points people are making, but I don't laugh and reticule people for their beliefs.

For the record I don't agree with Mike's point of view, he tends to be a little Abrahamic in philosphy for my taste, but you don't find me undercutting his post. If I had point to make that wasn't already stated I would state it.

Let's be civil and participate in a healthy Socratic Dialogue.
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Old 01-30-2003, 11:33 AM   #59
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I agree with Damion. Please remember, folks, that the very first AikiWeb Forums rule is, "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect."

With that, let's turn the discussion back to the "Aikido and Libido" subject...

-- Jun

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Old 01-30-2003, 03:07 PM   #60
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Perhaps the original post author should stick with kata. "Wax on. Wax off. Paint the fence. Upppp. Dowwwnnn." Miyagi Sensei, KARATE KID.
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Old 01-30-2003, 11:22 PM   #61
Kevin Wilbanks
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I have to say subjecting Kelly to such righteous censure seems pretty myopic. The original poster asked an honest question about their own feelings and experience, and was subjected to a battery of smug, irrelevant moralism... what does the bible, catholicism, and generalized prudery have to do with the original spirit of the discussion? Such an axe-grinding intrusion seems to invite satire in my book. I don't understand why a supposed creed of respect is so often invoked to enforce a Mister-Rogers-esque tone to all discussions.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 01-30-2003 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 01-30-2003, 11:34 PM   #62
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Alright let's do that.

I'm tired after a long hard day and just don't want to go to Aikido or Judo. However, I know that if I do I will feel energized when I leave: mentally, physically and emotionally. I also know that besides sleeping really good that night I am far more likely to enjoy some intimacies with my wife than if I just came home from work and watched telly.

I really don't think its Aikido so much as getting out and exercising. The blood flows to all the right places.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-31-2003, 06:19 AM   #63
mike lee
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like being laughed at?

Quote:
what does the bible, catholicism, and generalized prudery have to do with the original spirit of the discussion? Such an axe-grinding intrusion seems to invite satire in my book. I don't understand why a supposed creed of respect is so often invoked to enforce a Mister-Rogers-esque tone to all discussions.
I'll provide a Kelly reaction to this: "hehehe hahaha hohoho har har cough sputter snort!"
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Old 01-31-2003, 07:02 AM   #64
Ghost Fox
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Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
I have to say subjecting Kelly to such righteous censure seems pretty myopic. The original poster asked an honest question about their own feelings and experience, and was subjected to a battery of smug, irrelevant moralism... what does the bible, catholicism, and generalized prudery have to do with the original spirit of the discussion? Such an axe-grinding intrusion seems to invite satire in my book. I don't understand why a supposed creed of respect is so often invoked to enforce a Mister-Rogers-esque tone to all discussions.
No one's requesting a Mr. Roger's approach to dialogue, only that you attack the issues and not the person. I've read some feverish debates on this website that were well articulated and passionate. By dropping down to the juvinile level of satire and smug reponses your debase the purpose of this forum. The search or truth (& friends) through Socratic Dialogue.

Again, I'm no fan of Judeo-Christian Idealism, but I do respect a man who is passionate about his faith. By the way, I've seen people counter Mike's point, by siting various Taoist and Tantric ideals, what's the difference?

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Old 01-31-2003, 07:49 AM   #65
erikmenzel
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It just occured to me that I met quite a few people that said f*ck while doing aikido, but I have never encountered anyone that said Aikido while ....

Erik Jurrien Menzel
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Old 01-31-2003, 07:57 AM   #66
Kevin Wilbanks
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Quote:
Damion Lost (Ghost Fox) wrote:
By dropping down to the juvinile level of satire and smug reponses your debase the purpose of this forum. The search or truth (& friends) through Socratic Dialogue.

Again, I'm no fan of Judeo-Christian Idealism, but I do respect a man who is passionate about his faith.
Irony overload. You're defending the forum king of the smug insinuation and the ad hominem jab. I see no evidence of anything but a passion for puffed-up righteousness and the denigration of others. Read the archives (or even reread this thread) and get some historical perspective.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 01-31-2003 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 01-31-2003, 08:52 AM   #67
Ghost Fox
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I'm not defending anyone. I didn't appreciate his last response to you either. I am defending the spirit by which this website was created. Again, I really like some of your other post, and I know you have excellent points to make. Some people rub us the wrong way, just ignore them. Notice that I didn't like the whole Christian slant, so I didn't post. Besides you and some of the others on this website made my point for me.

Please understand that I mean no disrespect, and I'm in no position to chastise anyone. Peace and Blessings.
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Old 01-31-2003, 11:12 AM   #68
Kevin Wilbanks
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You may well be more tuned in to the spirit of the website than I am. It seems to me more of a general hang-out space than a place dedicated to professionalism and the search for truth, what with the variety of categories and all. My preference for a forum is to allow a certain amount of flaming and general rambunctiousness, and to err on the side of letting things go rather than applying censure. Then again, adminstrating for this forum is not my responsibility.

Incidentally, I don't think much of what goes on here could really be described as "Socratic Dialogue". Socrates generally presented open questions and led discussions by asking more and more questions, allowing the other participants to come to the conclusions themselves (or, get led by the nose to Socrates' conclusions, depending upon your interpretation). In any event, I don't think we have much of it here, just statements, explanations, arguments, half-witted non-sequiturs, etc...
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Old 01-31-2003, 02:11 PM   #69
Ghost Fox
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I agree with what you say about Socratic Dialogue being lacking on this website. That's why I don't post very much. For the most part it is just people talking to hear themselves talk. Peace and Blessings.
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Old 02-02-2003, 02:08 AM   #70
Kelly Allen
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Kevin thank you for sticking up for me I much appreciate it. However Damion has a point and I must apologize for my flippantness in my original post (I stick by the taking out of context comment though) and I also apologize for laughing at Mike after he fragged me. If I hadn't been so flipant maybe Mike wouldn't have been so offended. I will in the future try and coin my opinions in a nonconfrontational way. That is of course if I post at all.
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Old 02-02-2003, 02:15 AM   #71
Kelly Allen
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I wasn't the only one

Quote:
James Armstrong (Jimro) wrote:
This is the best laugh I've had in a long time.

Many people experience heightened awareness after beginning a martial arts regime. It happened to me most intensely after a 3 day street defense course. I remember trying to fall asleep to the humming of the refrigerator two rooms away, things I hadn't noticed before became clear to me.

I don't think that Aikido has increased your libido any, I think you are becoming more aware of what that was their all the time.
Apparently I wasn't the only one who was amused. James just made his point without laughing too hard I guess!?
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Old 02-23-2003, 01:35 PM   #72
cindy perkins
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Sorrow, friends. Judgement hurts all.

I am a new poster to this forum. I am impressed with the overwhelming tendency for posters to speak for themselves and not generalize or judge others. Self-examination like Kelly's is particularly admirable in my opinion. Exceptions only prove the rule; by and large these practitioners represent AiKiDo well.

To respond to Anonymous' original question, I firmly believe that morality lies in intention and action, not in thought or feeling. If one sits zazen, one sees thoughts and feelings arise and pass away completely without one's volition or control. If I notice the sexual attractiveness of a person who is not appropriate for me to have sex with, that is an experience, choiceless and morally neutral. If I prolong or indulge in the fantasy, speak of it or act on it, I am making moral (immoral) choices.

AiKiDo involves energy. Sexual energy is just energy in one of its forms. Especially as a beginner, I am discovering all sorts of energy. I have learned more about joy, anxiety, fear, pain, the rush of muscles actually doing what they should, balance, thirst, sexual energy, respect/hero worship... Physical working out is part of it, but I think a big piece is the intimacy necessary to connect with my practice partner's "center" and to blend with their energy.

Another thing that has happened for me in practicing is I realize how little the rest of my life allows me to explore the realm of "fleshiness." In fact, this culture would like to deny that I can recognize my son's scent or enjoy lying in a heap with a bunch of friends. About the only thing acceptable to do with this set of feelings and experiences is sex. So sorting out what all these sensations and feelings mean has been a new learning for me. There is nothing sexual in my experience of encountering a trusted partner's physical strength. It's kind of a internal shock, not unpleasant, but really unusual. But it took me some time to figure out that this feeling didn't mean I was getting a crush on him or wanted to take him to bed!

So, Anon., take your time and check out these feelings. And enjoy; it is part of the whole world of human experience!
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Old 02-24-2003, 05:53 AM   #73
mike lee
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can't get there from here

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If I prolong or indulge in the fantasy, speak of it or act on it, I am making moral (immoral) choices.
Lacking a moral compass, failure is all but assured.
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Old 02-25-2003, 02:29 PM   #74
ikkainogakusei
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contact = intimacy = sex?

Hi all

To address the beginning of this thread, yes libido can increase, I would guess that it would be due to activity, but I'm sure that the origin depends on the individual.

Also, I think that many of us have misgivings about the assumptions and codes of others. I would agree that it can be a bummer when you are a minority (ratio 1 chick : 7 guys) in a class and somebody decides that they want to be closer than you do. Recently, I had someone give me the wrong kind of contact, even though he was in a very long-term committed relationship. <sigh> However I find it interesting to observe the actions of individuals doing kokyu dosa.

I think that some people detach their psyche from their body in some cases, as a defense mechanism. Still others may over-engage in order to feel still in control. Many of these techniques are inherently intimate, and for many of us it's un-nerving.

To shreik in response to someone attempting to address some element of this <picture Donald Sutherland at the end of Invasion Of The Body Snatchers> is to shut down an important subject that could be expanded.

We think of Musubi as a timing connection, in terms of spatial understanding, but there is more than that in terms of connection. Some of it might be seen as sexual, but some of it might be misconstrued.

I have been chided on this site by another for (lightly) connecting with another over kinesiology. We were simply discussing things in wich we had a mutual interest, but were teased over it (I can only assume) because I'm a woman, and he's a guy.

I have had a connection of sorts with other male aikidoka, and had no interest in them sexually, I just -=really=- liked the way we trained together. I appreciated the eye contact and the engagement, as well as the timing, and in some cases the improvisation which lead to good keiko. This doesn't mean I want to have sex with them.

Sure I am a sexual being, but I can separate sex, and intimacy, and even love. Just because I connect (figuratively) with someone does not mean that I must, or want to connect (literally).

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Old 02-25-2003, 03:43 PM   #75
cindy perkins
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nicely put
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