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Old 03-13-2006, 01:41 PM   #1
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
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War Criminals still-at-large

And no, this thread has nothing to do, directly, with the Bush Administration. It focuses upon an insightful article by Jeremy Scahill, on the death of Slobodan Milosevic.

It just goes to show how well, and how insideously, the mainstream media can miscategorize. If someone asked me before this article: I'd have answered that Milosevic was another evil dictator caught and now facing justice. I spend a lot of time analyzing media-spin: and even so, I can get snookered, now and again. No one is immune.

Quote:
Slobodan Milosevic is characterized in the obituaries as the "Butcher of the Balkans." If that is the story you want to read about, please go to almost any other media outlet and read it again and again. Some are now suggesting that death is Milosevic's final revenge, that he "ended up cheating history" by dying before judgment was passed. But the world has already passed judgment on Milosevic and what is being cheated by his death is history itself.
If Milosevic's trial were properly carried out with transparent due-process: perhaps we'd be seeing Clinton on trial, at this time?

Quote:
To be sure, there will never be indictments of these US war criminals at the Hague: Bill Clinton, Madeline Albright, Jamie Rubin, William Cohen, Sandy Berger, Richard Holbrooke and Wesley Clark. For many of Serbia's victims of US war crimes, Milosevic's trial was a "Hail Mary" pass, as awful of an historical irony as that is, aimed at someone recognizing their forgotten suffering.
And Milosevic's all-too-timely (and some would say: suspicious) passing raises many disturbing questions about the full involvement of the US in Yugoslavia. Whose bed did we sleep in?

Quote:
Following the defeat of the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s, many Mujahadeen eventually turned their sights on Yugoslavia where they went to fight alongside the Bosnian Muslims against the Orthodox Serbs and Catholic Croats. Once again, the US and bin Laden were on the same team. To this day there are reports of training camps in Bosnia, which remains under occupation. It is also a likely training ground for future blowback.
Thoughts?
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Old 03-15-2006, 05:33 AM   #2
Steve Mullen
Dojo: White Rose (Sunderland)
Location: Washington
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
It just goes to show how well, and how insideously, the mainstream media can miscategorize. If someone asked me before this article: I'd have answered that Milosevic was another evil dictator caught and now facing justice. I spend a lot of time analyzing media-spin: and even so, I can get snookered, now and again. No one is immune.

Thoughts?
I haven't read the liunked article yet so i will reserve full judgement, but I think that one should be wary about commenting that the media can mis-categorise, then state that they changed their opinion on something based on an article they read. Is this not just another type of media?

"No matter your pretence, you are what you are and nothing more." - Kenshiro Abbe Shihan
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:44 AM   #3
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

http://www.commondreams.org/

What sort of news site is this?

"US MILITARY PLANNING TO MAKE INSECT CYBORGS"

Do subscribers get a free tinfoil helmet or should they fashion their own?

As far as the mainstream media painting Milosevic with broad strokes and leaving out quite a bit of the story about what went on in the Balkans I'm not surprised. They provide the product that their consumer base wants. Does that make them bad?
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:00 PM   #4
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

Quote:
Matthew Zsebik wrote:
http://www.commondreams.org/

What sort of news site is this?

"US MILITARY PLANNING TO MAKE INSECT CYBORGS"

Do subscribers get a free tinfoil helmet or should they fashion their own?
Well, if you'd bothered to click on the story, you'd have found that this is a project helmed by that gov't'l agency that spawns Nat'l Enquirer-sounding projects...DARPA.

Had you actually looked, you'd have found that the story originated in that tinfoil-helmeted source of news...UPI.

So easy to slime, instead of actually look.

Quote:
As far as the mainstream media painting Milosevic with broad strokes and leaving out quite a bit of the story about what went on in the Balkans I'm not surprised. They provide the product that their consumer base wants. Does that make them bad?
Yeah, it does. News isn't supposed to be "product," for our "entertainment." Or...was that supposed to be irony...?
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:01 PM   #5
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

Quote:
Steve Mullen wrote:
I haven't read the liunked article yet so i will reserve full judgement, but I think that one should be wary about commenting that the media can mis-categorise, then state that they changed their opinion on something based on an article they read. Is this not just another type of media?
I have no problem with getting my views from the media.

I DO have a problem with getting my views based upon distortion.
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Old 03-16-2006, 06:18 AM   #6
Steve Mullen
Dojo: White Rose (Sunderland)
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

surely the story you read was one persons distortion (or take) on the topic?

"No matter your pretence, you are what you are and nothing more." - Kenshiro Abbe Shihan
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Old 03-16-2006, 10:44 AM   #7
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

Quote:
Steve Mullen wrote:
surely the story you read was one persons distortion (or take) on the topic?
Why is it that when the mainstream media, a multi-billion dollar industry that has become central to our political system, distorts the truth: everyone just nods and accepts.

But when an alternative or progressive source presents a story, up come the cries of "distorted reporting!" "biased sources!" One of the central reasons we all made the wrong choice to go to war was the erroneous reporting of Judith Miller at the NYT, who kept feeing us 2nd-hand misinformation from the Pentagon.

I could only have wished that such a story as the one above came out at the end of 2002, reporting on the distortions of Judith Miller (and for ppl to take it seriously, instead of discounting it as another "distortion").

Sure, the story might contain distortions, but how about reading it first, before discounting it offhand, huh?
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Old 03-17-2006, 06:09 AM   #8
Steve Mullen
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

after my original post i did read the article, and found that, while it made some points worth discussing i don't think the article as a whole was enough to make me change my own views. but you will probably have some equally well thought out argument for this.

Gosh i do enjoy forums. Im fully into this discussion

"Why is it that when the mainstream media, a multi-billion dollar industry that has become central to our political system, distorts the truth: everyone just nods and accepts.

But when an alternative or progressive source presents a story, up come the cries of "distorted reporting!" "biased sources!" One of the central reasons we all made the wrong choice to go to war was the erroneous reporting of Judith Miller at the NYT, who kept feeing us 2nd-hand misinformation from the Pentagon. "

Im not commenting on the validity of the article. Im honestly not egotistical enough to pass judgement on the actions of several governments, or the reporting of the mass media (or even alternative or progressive sources) what i was saying was that you made a comment about everyone getting all their wrong (in your oppinion) views from the media, then you went on to say that after you read another bit of media you totally changed your opinions.

The freedom of speech is there to give everyone the opinion to be wrong if they feel like it, and its deffinately there to protect that right if they think they are right. Im not trying to take that away from anyone.

Done...

"No matter your pretence, you are what you are and nothing more." - Kenshiro Abbe Shihan
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Old 03-17-2006, 06:27 PM   #9
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posts: 225
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Re: War Criminals still-at-large

Quote:
Steve Mullen wrote:
you made a comment about everyone getting all their wrong (in your oppinion) views from the media, then you went on to say that after you read another bit of media you totally changed your opinions.

The freedom of speech is there to give everyone the opinion to be wrong if they feel like it, and its deffinately there to protect that right if they think they are right. Im not trying to take that away from anyone.

Done...
This is not about freedom of speech: this is about the perception of the world, as shaped by US mainstream media.

Often, I hear from people abroad how "different" the news coverage is, outside the US. Certainly, I am in agreement with that observation. From the US perspective, the Iraqi invasion was like one big videogame...fun, lots of new toys that blow up.

Of course, the Arabic press told the other side of the story.

But, this article changed my views on the state of international law, and justice. It makes me realize how important Saddam Hussein's trial really is, while realizing that Hussein is just as likely to have a little "accident," before he can REALLY talk about his connections with his old pals.

And, not to get too semantical, but the article didn't totally change my opinions...I never said that. The article provided a new insight for some holes in my perceptions.
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